Part number confusion

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Part number confusion
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 02:41 pm:

In a 1923 ford parts book part number 3320D is identified as DRIVEN GEAR SLEEVE WASHER three required
In Snyder's catalog the same part 3320D is identified as BRAKE DRUM THRUST WASHER.

As referred to in the 1923 parts book it would therefore be understood that the three washers 3320D would be placed under the driven gear between the driven gear and the flywheel? With the transmission I have just assembled there was trace evidence of the driven gear rubbing on the flywheel and therefore the three washers placed over the transmission shaft and resting on the flywheel (in the machined depression) will offer some clearance for the drive gear.

On models where the flanged brake drum bushing was no longer used and a system of washers was introduced to offer the required clearance appears to get somewhat confused with the driven gear sleeve washers? It appears that there are two separate sets of washers, three under the driven gear and three in the brake drum under the clutch disk drum. Some manuals are silent, Snyder's, Lang's and Macks all refer to these washer assemblies differently. In the 1915 parts book there is reference to a clutch finger washer
part #3337 3/4 there is no other reference in any other parts books.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 06:18 pm:

David,
In the black Model T book, Model T Ford Service, you can see on fig. 182 page 74 the place where the washers should be and on line 306 page 82 they talk about the washers.

Maybe this helps
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 06:22 pm:

Here is a photo where I installed the washers.
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 07:39 pm:

I agree the washers in the picture are installed where the flanged bushing is replaced with a non flanged bushing for the required spacing. Additionally the 1923 parts book requires three washers under the driven gear sleeve and refers to the washers as DRIVEN GEAR SLEEVE WASHERS therefore am I to understand that there are two sets of washers required?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Wednesday, November 11, 2015 - 08:19 pm:

Nothing under the driven gear.....The thrust washer are shown in Andre pictures..
No two sets of washers aren't needed.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 09:38 am:

In the 1923 parts book the flanged bushing was still in use and therefore the spacing washers would not have been required. If this is the case then where would the three washers listed in the parts book be installed? They are referred to as DRIVEN GEAR SLEEVE WASHERS. With the 15 transmission I have just assembled there was clear evidence of the drive gear having been rubbing on the fly wheel, therefore I placed two washers under the drive gear to offer some clearance for the drive gear. They appears to be non-intrusive and causes no assembly problems and avoids the gear from rubbing on the flywheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Thursday, November 12, 2015 - 11:38 am:

David

As shown in the picture the thrust washer installed where I think you are saying causes no problems will not let the transmission go together as it should. The driven gear when installed will be flush with the sleeve and rest on the main shaft flange. Installing washers between the main shaft and drum will not work and just caused more problems

I don't care what you have read. Do you have a transmission book or the service manual. If so do follow the instructions.

You may find the following link very helpful. modelt-tips.com find the section on transmissions


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, November 13, 2015 - 12:58 pm:

Benjaman Franklin: "Believe not what you hear and half of what you see."

Mike Bender your video is excellent. When looking at these transmissions to-day it is obvious where the said washers go, it is so simple to understand that they go inside the brake drum. All the early manuals, parts books and exploded pictures of the Ford transmissions the location of the washers is silent or ambiguous. It appears that in 1921 the washers were introduced and the flanged bushing was discontinued. Up to 1921 the flanged bushing was in use and therefore there were no washers. To day when re-bushing any "T" transmission the three washers are required as the flanged bushings are no longer available.

Mike I have one question about your video when you were inserting the cotter pin in the clutch setscrew and secured it to avoid it from backing out it appears that it would still be able to come out 1/2 a turn? Perhaps I was seeing it from a different angle.


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