Quick Warford Question.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Quick Warford Question.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:17 am:

New to the hobby and my project (speedster frame and motor turned into 1917 WWI Light Patrol Carr) currently has an original Warford transmission mounted in it aft of the hogshead with a shortened drive shaft.
I have been advised to leave the Warford in for possible value to the next owner.
This vehicle, when complete, will be rearely driven and only in a parade or display type situation, not planning on any touring or drives. The vehicle has NO brakes other than the transmission band. No parking brake or Rocky Mountains. I need to research the hubs and see if I can get back to at least a parking brake scenario. But the Warford stories about a true neutrail and no secondary brakes is making us questions what we need.

If we are not planning on using the Warford gears at all, is there still a chance of getting into a true neutrail and not having our drivewhaft band brake. No brake at all? Or, is there a way to put the Warford in a low gear or keep it our of any gear and have the "original" gearing and brake band?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:24 am:

With the Warford in neutral, you will have no brakes. As long as it stays in gear, your transmission brake will work fine.

If you plan on doing parades, leave the Warford in as low will work well as a parade gear.

Once you pop the warford out of gear, it can be difficult to get it back into any gear as it is not synchronized. You will need to rev-match the engine to get it into gear, which would be difficult in a panic situation... especially if you step on the brake and kill the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:29 am:

Second what Derek says. If you don't shift on the fly, no problem. If you want to engage the Warford do so when the car is stopped or barely moving in a safe environment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:51 am:

If you keep the Warford in place I'd add auxiliary brakes. I know you said that you won't need them based on your planned use, but since it will be running with the Warford it should be set up with brakes that can handle what it's capable of.

Just my $.02 worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 11:01 am:

My Op would be; remove the Warford and install correct drive shaft and parking brakes. What rear end parts do you have? I see T wire wheels on the front, do you have the hubs/drums and wire wheels for the rear? If you have the 26/27 rear end you might just need the brake shoes, mounting hardware and rods.

The parades I have been in, we didn't move along at a slow constant pace, more like; go stop wait, go stop wait...:-)

Never had problem driving with parking brake lever holding clutch in neutral and bumping low band. Worford or not, just using the low band is hard on the lining driving in parades or heavy traffic. It still has to be engaged about as many times for both set ups.

You could sell it and use the money for the project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 11:04 am:

As a minimum, you would need large drum parking brakes on such a car - since the 26/27 style parking brake can be used for stopping. But it wouldn't be 1917 authentic, so for a safe 1917 style car, I would recommend original everything - shouldn't be hard to find. Then you can build a speedster with Warford later on if you like.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 11:47 am:

The Warford's deep underdrive is great for parades. Leave it in and don't attempt to shift on the fly until you get some brakes, or at least the parking/emergency brakes able to stop the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Worn transmissions have been known to be able to jump out of gear.. (don't know about Warford's though)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 01:58 pm:

Long time Warford driver here recommends to Not Remove a perfectly highly prized option from your car. You really will like the underdrive ratio of the Warford especially for parades. These aux. trannys are not know to jump out of gear and especially not out of underdrive. You do not have to be afraid of shifting and having a hard time of getting it into gear if you always do that when you are stopped. Shifting from low up into standard Ford is really pretty easy but you should practice that when you have lots of room away from other traffic. Downshifting is something you would want to avoid unless stopped.

YES!!! you need to get your parking brakes working!! That is MORE important than thinking about removing the Warford at this point. In the event that something in the drive line breaks, like an axle, drive shaft or worn out tranny brake you have no brakes. With an operational parking brake you can always apply the hand brake to stop.

Should you get some kind of Aux. or outside brakes? YES, but is this something that should prevent you from doing a parade NO. Get your parking brakes fixed it's pretty simple and cheap...

You've thought about this for a long time now if I remember you posting months ago and could have the brakes done now.

Have fun and be careful and don't let some here scare you from driving your T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 03:03 pm:

I was going to address the brakes under a seperte thread, but since you all fel the need to bring them up, here is my current situation. I will try to find a photo, but previous comments have indicated that I have A wire wheels with T hubs welded on and only one wheel has some sort of drum. No backing plates on either side of the rear axle. Only brake parts this chassis has is lever and rod underneath trans with two connectors, one on each side. Nothing else back.

After speaking with Jay at the Model T muuseum this past week, he showed me a set of Rocky Mountain brakes and I certainly see the need for them if I were using the Warford and accidently found myself in true neutral.

My finished product will be a Model T salad as I want to keep whe wire wheel look, not the wooden wheel look even though not period correct. I want to keep the 26 motor, not go back to a 17 motor and will not be period correct. It will be a vehicle that is "representative" of the species.

Yes, if I started spending money and buying parts, my brakes would be done by now. If, however, while I am still in the research stage and I end up with a different drive shaft and rear axle and spindles and wooden wheels, then all the time and effort putting brakes on this set up would not be the best use of my resources, would it?

In the next few days, I will take off the rear wheels and post some pictures to seek assistance with what I got and what I need to get a set up for RM brakes. Leaving the Warford in and installing brakes for the next guy seems to be what I'm hearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 03:26 pm:

Install parking brakes and don't worry about the rest. You'll likely be fine as the new lined shoes produced these days are pretty good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 06:16 pm:

You say the car will only be used for parades. But how are you going to get to the parade?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 07:17 pm:

Down here in GA we have these new fangled things called "trailers". You put your parade vehicle on it and take it anywhere you want without driving the parade vehicle.

It's a novel concept.

Google "trailer" you might find some photos of one. Mine's big and flat.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 07:26 pm:

Looks to me like you have a large drum rear axle without the backing plates and your Model A wheels are welded to the earlier small brake drum. Why don't you go fishing for a junk large drum rear axle and use the parts to give your speedster a large drum emergency brake and you are done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 07:51 pm:

Don't let snide remarks get to you. Some of us make snide remarks. I sometimes make snide remarks, and I often enjoy them when made by others.
Your next-to-last photo appears to show a '26/'27 rear end. I can't be 100% sure because of the angle of the photo (could be a heavily modified earlier rear end?). That is a good-news/bad-news thing. The '26/'27 rear brakes are much better than the earlier type. But they are also more difficult and expensive to repair and replace what is missing. They are also cheaper than the Rocky Mountain Brakes option.
Once properly done and adjusted, the '26/'27 rear brakes are more than adequate in an emergency. I often recommend practicing with the emergency brake a bit after you get the car running. You should be used to the idea and the feel of using it.
Any model T, with or without, an auxiliary transmission should have a good working and properly adjusted emergency brake. The earlier small drum is adequate (barely) if properly set up. Any auxiliary transmission can jump or get knocked out of gear at any time. When it happens to you unexpectedly is NOT when you want to have to figure out what to do about it!
That said, The Warford under-drive is great for parades!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Bergmann Sydney - Australia on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 08:21 pm:

Most important on any vehicle, brakes and steering. JMHO And, did anyone notice the DF spindles on Robert's chassis?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, November 15, 2015 - 10:21 pm:

Is that good or bad? I believe that the sxles or spindles were lowered for the speedster. I wasn't planning on raising it back up. My wife is 5'4" and with no running boards, this might make it easier for her to climb on in. Or, I saw some TT steps or short running boards that might work.


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