Transmission stuck in high

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Transmission stuck in high
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jon pederson, Minneapolis,MN on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 04:09 pm:

Now that I have rebuilt the trans, reinstalled the engine and bolted everything back up, my trans is stuck in high gear. I bought the Mtfca book and I'm pretty sure I got everything together right. The drums rotated before I put the hogshead back on, I adjusted the fingers so the spring was at 2" and when I push on the clutch pedal I can rattle the fingers a little so it must be disengaged?
My first "T" so I admit I'm still trying to understand how the trans works. What's my next step?
One other problem, I installed wood bands, and got them tight to the bands but my pedals don't seem to have anywhere near the travel that I see on videos. My reverse pedal has almost no movement and the spring isn't even compressed at all.
Thanks ahead of time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 04:20 pm:

If you can move the fingers with the brake handle pulled back they are not pressing on the spring and releasing the clutch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 04:28 pm:

Are you sure it's stuck in "high".

Jack up the car and put the rear axle on stands. Chock the front wheels both front and back Leave the parking lever forward and try to start the engine. In this position, the car should be in high gear but low, reverse and brake off. If it starts it should be in high gear. Next pull back on the parking brake lever. If it stalls the engine, you really are stuck in high gear, but if it continues to run but the rear wheels are stopped, your high gear clutch is working.

Don't run it for very long because you might very well be dragging the bands and the drums will get hot and crack.

Your bands should be tight when the pedal is about 1 1/2" above the floorboard. If the bands are tighter than that, they should be loosened. If you get the bands as loose as you can and they are still too tight, you have a problem.

If you start the engine with the parking brake in neutral and work the pedals, the wheels should move either forward in low, backward in reverse, or stop when you push the brake. If you do this, do for only a minute or two and let it cool off. Try again for a short time.

With the parking lever in the neutral position, you should be able to push the car without turning the engine or crank the engine without moving the car. If you push the car and the engine turns your bands are too tight. If the engine turns forward when you push the car forward, your low is too tight. If it turns backward when you push the car forward you reverse band is too tight.

Three things will cause the bands to be too tight. 1. Adjusted too tight. 2. is the lining is too thick. 3. bands are bent and out of round.


Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 07:18 pm:

Check this thread for adjusting the clutch for a free neutral.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/461201.html?1405692926
and
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/570694.html?1442194819
and proper discs and assembly
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/422288.html?1392217331


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:07 pm:

Jon, as far as I know, the 2" measurement on the spring is only used to work out if the spring is capable of making the clutch work satisfactorily. At the 2"measurement it is supposed to exert a certain amount of pressure. I forget how much. Adjusting the spring to 2" height is not the way to set the clutch up.

The three fingers are adjusted to 13/16" between the clutch shift collar and the driven plate. There is a tool available from the vendors to measure this distance. I made my tool using a piece of light rod and a 13/16" wheel nut welded to it.

Once you have this setting correct, then you can proceed to make other adjustments.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Albert Belling on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:17 pm:

Allen, is certainly right. 2" is way to much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:40 pm:

The 2" is for the spring pressure measurement, but installed and set at 13/16" also usually sets the spring at 2" as well, checked it may a time on trans assembled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:40 pm:

If you pull the parking brake lever back it pulls the clutch collar back and compresses the clutch spring, THE FINGERS WILL BE LOOSE. The fingers press on the extensions on the clutch ring that stick through the drive plate compressing the disk to engage the clutch when your foot is off the low pedal or the parking brake handle is in the forward position.

Did you check the tabs in the brake drum? If they are badly scored they can hang up the disks and will not allow the clutch to go into neutral.

With the wood bands there may be enough outward force that the springs don't have anything to do and are just along for the ride till the bands get some use. I would be more concerned in making sure the bands are not dragging.

Just remember the only time the clutch is engaged is when the car is in high. When in low, reverse and braking the clutch is disengaged (neutral). Yes you can use the brake pedal, throttle and retard spark when slowing down (pump the brake pedal)but for the full stop you still need to hold the low pedal down in neutral or you will kill the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 08:56 pm:

Did you rebuild an existing, working transmission or build a transmission from parts?

If you paired a later drive plate with smaller holes with an earlier clutch pack ring with larger dowels the transmission will remain stuck in high.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, November 19, 2015 - 09:55 pm:

If the car or truck sat for some time the clutch pay could be stuck together and just not releasing
Loosen up the band's a couple turns jack up the rear both wheels start engine get it hot and pulll back on the brake at mid rim don't latch it just pull back quickly released it a few times
Listen to the motor if it's not stalling as much repeat until it frees up


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Friday, November 20, 2015 - 01:56 am:

I had my transmission stick in high, it was a perfectly operating transmission that I had left parked with the hand brake fully forward with full pressure on the disks. The clutch stuck and I had to tow it for about a mile in natural before it let go. Now I park it in the natural position (spring compressed) Some years ago there was a high end British car with multiple clutch disks and the car came with a short piece of wood to place between the seat frame and the clutch pedal to keep it depressed to avoid sticking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay Ogle - Chalfont, PA on Friday, November 20, 2015 - 07:47 am:

Last year I rebuilt my transmission and had a similar experience. I replaced the clutch disks with a new pack. I could only run in high gear. The 13/16" dimension was correct. What I found out was there was so much friction between the faces of the new clutch disks they wouldn't break loose. Was finally able to break them loose with the starter. Transmission still shifts hard into high gear and I believe it is caused by the faces of the disks not being burnished smooth. Just a thought.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jon pederson, Minneapolis,MN on Friday, November 20, 2015 - 06:24 pm:

Thanks to all the great advice I am able to roll it around again. probably won't get the rebuilt engine started until spring, gives me a little time to read up some more.
Jon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 08:31 am:

jon,

Do you have time to tell us how you were able to get it into "neutral"?

Your solution may help others with a similar problem.

Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 11:43 am:

Jon, I didn't read thru the whole thread before posting, so someone may have covered this...

I have seen a couple cases of "transmissions stuck in high" because the the front bushing of the brake drum (which is called the driven gear shaft) is only pressed in flush with the end of the shaft instead of being pressed in far enough that it clears the radius on the transmission main shaft. Usually, if this is the error, you may have experienced an "issue" with the bolt hole of the disc drum properly lining up with the hole in the shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 02:46 pm:

Perhaps, you were mistaken and it was not locked in high but, the bands were too tight and locking the transmission up. I built one recently and tightened the brake too much and the engine wouldn't turn till I loosened the brake and reverse some. After doing that, all was well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jon pederson, Minneapolis,MN on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 04:01 pm:

Yes, the bands were too tight and the crank turned when I pushed the car. For now I have them as loose as they will go. Rookie mistake I guess, I assumed the springs had to be under tension for the pedals to come back up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 04:09 pm:

Thank you jon


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