Before I 'screw-up' the steering - Help!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Before I 'screw-up' the steering - Help!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 08:55 pm:

Am wanting to re-plate the gear cover and quadrant, as well as the levers for my '25 Coupe. Cover is off OK to expose the gears, but am unsure about pulling the steering shaft and removing the lower case, plus then the quadrant is riveted to the steering column. Have tried looking at parts diagrams, but still not sure what is best way. Since this area is a new (to me) experience, I am reluctant to 'force anything' apart and become destroyed or unusable. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 09:01 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/324222.html?1353893998

This post has some good information.

Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 09:38 pm:

Thanks, Rich!
Since I'm just getting started with this, can I assume the gears and shaft will just pull out? How is the lower casing fastened to the column - by those four rivets beneath the quadrant? Checked the thread you shared and admitting ignorance on the 'fingers' reference. Everything appears salvageable, so I prefer being non-destructive. Thank you.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 09:51 pm:

Those four rivets are actually two rivets sledged on both ends. Yes, the gears and shaft just pull out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 10:38 pm:

Thanks, Dale!
"I see", said the blind man. Tapping with a 'dead blow' hammer shouldn't destroy the shaft's taper on the bottom end? What is the reference to 'fingers'? Appreciatively,
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, November 21, 2015 - 11:56 pm:

The shaft should just come out, might help to turn it while pushing/pulling. However, taking the housing out of the column may, nah, WILL be a bit difficult. I would be very tempted, if I had a good column & housing, to try to plate it assembled. I haven't done it yet, but am considering using the Caswell's brush plating kit to try it. Getting the parts clean enough to accept the plating may be tricky though!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 12:09 am:

No, I wouldn't plate anything assembled. I've been down that road. Take the time to do it right.

When Terry refers to fingers, he's taking about the parts that bend around the rods. See Dan's second picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 12:22 am:

Hey, Guys - Thank you!
If my suspicion is correct, those 'fingers' are inside the sheet metal of the column? I'm looking forward to getting back out to the shop for some 'O.J.T.'.... Didn't think youse guys would be so helpful on a Saturday night. Thanks!!
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 06:15 am:

Marv, the quadrant isn't plated on a '25, it's just painted black. Don't worry about the "fingers", the rods can't go anywhere once everything is put back together. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 09:02 am:

According to the encyclopedia, 25 was still nickel. My late '25 shows the remains of nickel.

"During 1919 the finish was specified as zinc plated and buffed (instead of nickel). Shortly later the cover finish was changed back to nickel, and in 1920 the case itself was again nickled. This finish continued, according to factory blueprints, until sometime in 1926. The spark and throttle rods were also changed to zinc plated at the handles, and black painted below, and remained this way until July 26, 1926 the blueprint."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 09:22 am:

Be sure to anneal the tabs before attempting to open them or they will break off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 10:47 am:

Thanks for the info, fellas!
Dave & Ken - As I understand it, the entire lower casing and fingers are brass? If so, another crazy direction of my thoughts...., my mental picture could alter to being 'polished (even plated?) brass' for a unique, different look? The brass theme would then be used throughout. I can appreciate 'Period-Correct' and all, but I am not a 'purist'.... Just former ISCA, and wanting to get appearances to the degree most pleasing to the eye along with my apology if that offends anyone. ('Henry' may not have appreciated my tinkrin' with MY toys, but I haven't put together 'belly-buttons' in the past.):-) Appreciatively,
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 11:08 am:

The only practical downside I see to a "creative" decoration scheme is that if the car ever is sold it will repel some buyers. Of course, it may attract some others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerome Hoffman, Hays Kansas on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 11:13 am:

Marv, if you had an earlier coupe, one with rear opening doors going brass would not look to far from normal. Your car is nicked plated because the case is brass and the cover is steel. As far as I know Ford never made that cover in brass, the brass ones look way different. It looks like your doing a full resto so dissimilarity is not a problem. If the column needed rebuilding and not much else you would remove the column from the car and sometimes getting it out of the car keeping damage to other parts of the car is of the highest priority. It's not that you'll not like having some bling on your car, but overdoing something that is far from original will take value away from it. but if you don't care about that then as I say to almost everyone it's Americana and it's my car and I can do what I want to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 11:18 am:

Am appreciating the thought, Steve, but my kids & grandkids don't seem to be willing to 'part company'. The '26 TT will always be a Family Legacy.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 11:32 am:

Absolutely understand about overdone 'bling', and I have never appreciated the "Gook-Wagon" or dissimilarity appearance. 'Overdone' is usually not pleasant to the eye. (Even Chip Foose does a drawing first to get an idea of what he wants to achieve!)
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 01:36 pm:

Ken,
What is your procedure for annealing the fingers? I hear different ways of doing it--and cast brass, I'm told, is not done the way sheet brass is done.
I'll sign this,
Confused!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 05:46 am:

Me too Ken. I need to take a column to bits as well, and don't want to break off the bits around the rods.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 05:56 am:

It isn't a catastrophe if a little piece of the tabs breaks off - the rods will be held in place by the column anyway. The tabs were likely clamped around the rods at Ford for the ease of assembly, noone thought anybody would ever take them apart again..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 06:10 am:

I agree with Roger on his points, but will add my swag to it...

you can silver solder new tabs on if they break off...and it might be helpful: I found that by repairing the tabs and hammering them over and filing the outside of them to "just" go into the housing, the entire assembly is really tight in the column and the rivets are simply holding things in place and are not the main structure that resists counter-rotation of the housing when steering. It also makes the rods "snug" and keep them from creeping while driving
I found it useful to make the repair, and of course, did it prior to nickel plating


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Day on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 04:12 am:

I've done this operation and upon install, opted to employ tapered pins to hold the assembly to the column. This suggestion via a machinist friend who had done the same. Put it all back together as though you were going to rivet, but ream the hole with a tapered reamer to match the pin. Drive the pin home and all will be tight until the day comes to remove, a simple tap from the opposite end is all that is needed. Tapered pins are available in several lengths and #'d the same as the reamer used for them. Believe it was a #1 or 2 pin/reamer. You will have to measure the length between the holes in the quadrant, I believe the length is 1". Mine fit and had the right look without any riveting involved. Once painted, no one is the wiser.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 10:45 am:

-Russell-
Great Idea! I like it!! Thank you!!!
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 01:25 am:

Russell, that sounds like a good idea to me too. Wish I had thought about that a few years ago. I've replaced the gear case on both of my T's and just used the standard rivets as sold by the vendors. They both came out OK, but riveting them was a bit of a chore because of the taper on each side of the column. Next time, I'll try using the tapered rivets(if I can remember!). Dave


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