OT - Today's Affect-Effect / Ramifications for Tomorrow?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: OT - Today's Affect-Effect / Ramifications for Tomorrow?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 12:58 pm:

"Today's Kids" have been a topic throughout history, and they will often 'cause a pause' today....
Stopped at Wal-Mart last evening to pick up some Canada Dry 12-packs. (Went through a human checkout for an 'Ad-Match' of Walgreens' 3 for $9, which I had stated to the young lady checker likely about age 18-20...) After scanning the bar code, then needing to void out my purchase, I realized she was dumbfounded 'cuz she wasn't able to do the scanner thing.... "How much would that be for each one?" After telling her "$3 each", "Oh,,,,, yeah."
Might we have to wonder WHAT is being taught in school? EDUCATION or INDOCTRINATION????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 01:17 pm:

Marv; I don't think anything is being taught in school

I know of a person who cannot read cursive(?spelling) or hand written notes and he is nearly 30, however he is a whiz on computers, does not have a people personality, not good a communication, his brother is just the opposite .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 08:03 pm:

There's lots of stuff being taught in school, but not everybody is learning it. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

yes, I see many young that cannot do simple math, don't know simple geography, and cannot balance a checkbook. I also see bright young men and women that are energetic, knowledgeable, and a strong credit to their generation. I suspect it has always been so. I'm not afraid of the future in their hands!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

My 9 year old granddaughter's public school is no longer teaching cursive writing. My question is how will this generation be able to sign documents?, wills, purchase papers, or anything requiring a signature?

The schools rational is everyone keyboards now no one needs to be able to write. I suppose spelling in next, because everyone uses spell check. might as well stop teaching math because everyone uses calculators.

I for one refuse to support school bond issues just for these very reasons, They need to get back to the 3 r's and teach reading, writing and arithmetic. It has lead us well for well over 150 years.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 09:45 pm:

LoL

My wife (Phd degree) teaches ethics in a NH college. She is amazed at how lazy some of the students are and little they know.

She gets two types of reviews -
first - this teacher is tough. She Expects us to come to class, read the book , and take tests.
The other is - she is a fantastic teacher. She taught us how to study, how to think, and how to write papers.
I wish I had her earlier because it has made my other classes easy.

The problem is that most of them don't know how to think.
They have been dumbed down by our wonderful,education system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 10:28 pm:

With education, as with government, we get what the majority votes for. Sometimes the majority elects an honest public servant, sometimes a crass blowhard, sometimes a posturing ignoramus. Everybody votes. Some by going to the polls, and some by staying home.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 10:31 pm:

Well, I guess my Grandparents thought the world would go to hell in a hand basket once my generation took over too. Truth be known, I've got a lot more and a lot better now then they ever had and I'm pretty comfortable. Maybe the youth of today will succeed in spite of their lack of abilities. We did.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 11:06 pm:

I completely agree with Noel's comment. Sure, there are plenty of young dummies walking around loose. There are plenty of old ones too. On the other hand I know plenty of pretty good kids and they will do just fine carrying the baton we hand them on to the generation that follows them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 11:50 pm:

My boy Spencer: 7 Scholarships to the best college in the state including the Hamilton Ranch Foundation which is awarded only when the board feels someone has earned it - full ride for 4 years. Perfect 4 point for the first 2 1/2 months of college. Founder of the Trigonometry/Calculus club in High School. Took every honors class available in High School. Graduated with a 3:85, 4th in his class. Played drums in the band and sang in the choir. Played football until he ruined his knee. Ran track until he did it again. Several community service awards including one for getting up at 5 AM and going out with two other boys to shovel walks for the elderly in town. Dirt bikes, Jeeps, shoots gophers and has a steady line up of young ladies. Spent today with the lady who was his nanny when he was little because she is 87 and still his best friend. He went early to help her cook and get dinner ready. Started saving money when he was 10 so he could buy a car when he turned 16; had all cash.

My girl Savanna: Sophomore in high school. Straight A student, top ten in the state Geography Contest against students from the largest schools. 6th in the state in Science Institute competition for all 8th graders in the state and the only girl in the top ten. Went to Gifted and Talented Institute at Carroll College every year until she got too old at 14. Twice state champion old time fiddler in her age group. Outstanding guitarist, fiddler, singer and 1st violinist with a group that plays for historically correct Victorian Balls, playing music from the 1840's, 50's, 60's & 70's. Plays piano for the school choir, weddings, funerals and whatever someone needs a pianist for in the little town they live in. Plays Trumpet, Trombone, Cello & Drums. 9th place out of 100 in the state Class C Cross Country meet, ran 3 miles in 20:06 minutes. Wants to go shooting over Christmas break like we did last year, too busy this weekend. Biggest complaint? There is only one other student in her class who gives her serious academic competition. Passed Hunter Safety and Drivers Ed and worked all summer on the maintenance crew at the school painting and cleaning. Likes dirt bikes, mechanical stuff like her 1948 CJ2A, Jeeps, guns, Gopher hunting, Basketball, Volleyball, Music, clothes, jewelry, cars, math and her mom and me. Her spare time is spent on youtube taking an online class on Jazz Guitar rhythm chords. We spend some of our time together working on Western Swing chord progressions and arrangements.

They are not all idiots, they just don't hang out where you meet them, they are busy working, building successes in their lives and planning for the future.

I have another friend named Jaselyn who is trying to come up with the money to go to a little state college to become an elementary teacher but can't get scholarship money because she was home schooled - even tho she passed the state graduation exam at 17 with nearly a perfect score. She worked probably 12 hours today at Golden Corral because it was a big day and she would make good tips. I try to help her as I can but I can't afford to send her to college. Need an address to send her a check??? That's what I thought.

Here is Savanna at the top of the hill after a 4 miles run along the river and up the hill -- practicing for Cross Country competition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:38 am:

The female Marine Fitness Test maxes out at 100 points for three miles in 21:00, so that 20:06 is mighty impressive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 02:02 am:

The girl who won 1st in the state, Bailey, is from Gardiner and is running at 6000+ feet. She is a senior and is a little taller than Savanna but not too much, maybe a couple inches. She set a new state record this year at 15:28 for the three mile course. There were ten girls from class C schools under 20:10.

This is about half way up the hill she likes to run up. It is 4 miles from the river to the top.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 02:21 am:

That should be 19:28. I dunno how to edit this site. 15:28 she would be the world champion and then some. Proofread!!! Pruufreed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Saggese on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 02:31 am:

We aren't all that bad. It is very much on an individual basis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 03:18 am:

But Stan, other states are not all like Montana.
I went to fifth grade in Montana. Livingston.
Those kids were WAAAAAAAY ahead of what we were doing in Wisconsin.
They even had a class to read music, I think maybe twice a week.
All the history I remember I learned in Montana.
My three nieces and a nephew in Billings were waaaaaay more literate than we were in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
We never figured out what it was but my two brothers also say the same thing.
There is something in the school system or in the air or water that just drives you to be better. Maybe they catch it from each other. I don't know.
I often wish I would have gone back there instead of Califlunky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Buckley on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 03:35 am:

Stan, you are very lucky and should be very proud of your kids.

I have had some teens around my area here, ( because I couldn't find adults, to work for $10. per hour), that I have hired to do work around my property, that I can't physically do, and seem to be good, but, their home life is not so good. Some are very intelligent, and a lot of them, just don't care about school, so the cycle will continue, until it is broken some day.

Brass Car Guy, maybe they will just use an "X", again, for their signature, like some of our great great grandparents did, who couldn't read or write, because they had to help work, to help feed the family.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux Margaret River West Oz on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 06:25 am:

Is it possible that schools simply teach what the system thinks the then current generation need?
When we were kids we never had spell check, calculators, ipads etc. We needed to learn to spell and add up. The current generation don't!
The closest we got to cheating was Dads slide rule. Probably in an antique store now!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 06:46 am:

I will say this, I wish I could go to my younger self and Impress on him some of the oppertunities I missed because he wanted to go fishing rather than study:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 06:53 am:

I am a strong believer that it all boils down to proper roll models. If a young person has a mentor who sets good examples for them by teaching them to study and work hard and earn their own way then the youth will succeed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 06:56 am:

A "X" Is a LEGAL signature.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 08:47 am:

Big difference between country kids and city kids. Always was, always will be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By CharlesHebert on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 08:58 am:

As a teacher and administrator for over 40 years I am dumbfounded at what high schools seniors don't know. Subed for the last month. Everything is taught in isolation with no connection to the world.
Taught for the test and then forget it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 11:50 am:

Part of the problem is that we no longer allow teachers to hold students to higher standards than others as they all now have the right to be uneducated if they want to be. We -- by lack of involvement in the school and education in general -- have reached the point where we expect the school to replace the parent, the church, the law and the general discipline that was given by adults to other people's children. Many classrooms teach to the lowest student in the class, depriving others of opportunity to learn at accelerated levels because all students must "succeed", whatever that is.

Fortunately, these kids go to a school in a small rural town in Montana where the administration knows every student by name, where there are dress standards, behavior standards and achieving to the best of your ability is not only expected but demanded. Not every teacher there is the best but every teacher is there because they want to be, not because it was the only job they could get or because the school was desperate to fill a position.

Disrespect or misbehavior is dealt with by the teacher, the administration and the parents while still acknowledging that these are kids and they are going to be full of energy and hormones. This is not to say that they are not allowed to have an opinion or voice a disagreement with a teacher or the learning environment or pedagogy of that teacher. It is to say that they are expected to do it in a respectful manner and can expect that the response to them will also be respectful of their ideas and knowledge.

Montana is what America was. Including the schools.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 12:10 pm:

Am in agreement without dispute! It's unfortunate we need to concern ourselves to be "P/C", bruising someone's ego or self-esteem (however appropriate it may be), and give them a 'participation trophy' while we're at it.... Again, is it 'EDUCATION' or 'INDOCTRINATION'????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 12:47 pm:

My pet peeve!! Drives me crazy!! Watch how the younger people (<30) hold pens/pencils. Very few hold their pens with the tips of their digits. Itís like they donít have fingers! My wife (teacher/principal for 40 years) says the pre-schools donít correct how they hold pens/crayons and when they get to kindergarten the teachers say it is too hard to correct. So why teach them cursive when they donít know how to hold a pen correctly? SO HOW THEY GOING TO HOLD WRENCHES TO THEY WORK ON THEIR MODEL Tís WHEN THEY GET OLDER???????? Other than that, I am too far along/old to worry about things except hunting and Tís. I am sure the generations will do fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Mettling - Dayton OH on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:18 pm:

I'm a millennial (30) and used to getting bashed by the boomers. But I'm sure the generation before thought the same things we all do about the next generation. I think the same of the younger ones now just entering college and what they are thought . Or not taught. This isn't news.

But I do worry about the idiots of my generation and the values they dont have. Just turn on the nightly news and see their latest protests against hard working people. Their achievements are just hashtags and Facebook updates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brian Mettling - Dayton OH on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:32 pm:

Also, don't confuse generational qualities with cultural qualities


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:35 pm:

Ask a 16 year old what time it is with old school clock or have the use a old style phone and see the looks you get, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Lebeda, Humboldt, SD on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:50 pm:

I didnít mean to offend anyone; it is not the kids fault on holding pens/crayons! I am with Michael, hoping each generation has more advantages/better opportunities than the past. Time to go shoot some roosters, dogs are anxious!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:53 pm:

The dial clocks, rotary phones, LP's. Man all that stuff is dead and gone. "It's amazing what they don't know". What's amazing is what you don't need to know in today's world. The only places where student's don't actually write are places where pads and lap tops aren't affordable. It doesn't put them ahead of us and believe me if they could go electronic they would. As has been posted above: there's them that will and them that won't as far as life in general is concerned and that hasn't changed in thousands of years. We're just falling behind the times like your Dad & Granddad before him. And this is coming from guys that drive 100 year old cars!!! LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 03:36 pm:

This will be the downfall of modern civilization! When the web crashes worldwide, only those who can do things the old way will survive. We wonder what happened to old civilizations such as Egypt? Something happened which erased the memory of how to build pyramids etc. Some day, if people survive, they will see the remains of our roads and cars and say something like,"There are rumors that those people had carriages which could run 100 MPH without any horses. We don't understand what made them run." Of course, by that time all the books will be on the internet and when it crashes, all knowledge of the last century will be erased. Those who survive will have to learn math, spelling, writing, all over again.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Watson on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 06:28 pm:

I know an ex-police officer who has a BS in Geology, Masters in Secondary Education and a PhD in Political Science, but could not figure out the difference between a Word.doc and .docx file. Book smart but dummer than a box of rocks when it comes to common sense and street smarts. Easy to get the degree via studying but difficult for him to apply to real world situations. A sibling of mine... lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 08:50 pm:

Will the goings on of today have an effect on what happens tomorrow? You bet it will!
The internet has changed everything in what we do, see, hear and how it effects us whether we know it or not.
With all the good its brought us the bad and what it will bring overshadows the good. The indirect ways its changing our values, whats important and what is not is starting to show. And its not pretty in the long run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 09:37 pm:

Technology has a nasty habit of changing things. Look what automobiles did to the horse trading business.

Things will always change and people will always worry that it's all ruining our world.

Fire, gun powder, the wheel, bronze production, steel, radio communications, television, nuclear fusion, space travel and on and on. Technology has brought us to where we are and will continue to change the world.

Thank God for young people who don't necessarily accept the status quo! Silicone chips, miniature printed circuit boards, tiny electronic components that go into devices that everyone carries around in their pockets that 30 years ago would have scared people to death.

In 1950 a computer was housed in a large room and was barely capable of performing rudimentary math. Now the telephones we carry around fit in your shirt pocket and can be used to communicate from just about anywhere in the world. They have a scientific mathematic calculator built into them that have functions that would baffle 98% of the people on this forum.

And, year after years these little improvements have been accomplished by the people that our parents and grandparents were certain were going to destroy their world.

This world succeeds because of a balance that's achieved when people that succeed in their educations are balanced by the people who struggle. All the smarts in the world won't get ya down the road if you don't know how to apply them.

I've got a 37 year old nephew that's a 4.0 student in college. Always has been. He applies himself to his studies. Hell there's times I wonder who ties his shoes for him. His Dad was a truck driver and his mother cleaned houses so they'd have enough money to raise their kids and get them through school. The kid just keeps accruing debt and will probably be running a fork truck in a factory in 10 years.

I guess I've got tons of faith in our young people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 10:16 pm:

It all boils down to the contents of one's character. Apply good mentoring and
a kid can go just about anywhere they wish in life. Or they may choose to do
something else .... it's all about the content of one's character.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 01:49 am:

You probably will not meet the smart ones working at Walmart, MacDonalds and such. My eldest Grandson carries a full load of college prep in High school and spends the rest of the time swimming and water polo. The younger one, well he is something else. I taught him chess, we are now at 5:15 in his favour. Heather bought him Bobby Fishers handbook and the little s.o.b. memorized it... The world is in good hands....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 02:46 am:

I now a lot of smart kids around here that worked at Walmart, MacDonalds and such, but that was when they were in high school. They were smart enough to know that they can't support a family on those wages. It seems there are a lot of people that don't realize those jobs were never meant for that. I call them entry level jobs, like when we were kids and hauled hay, cut weeds out of soybeans, mowed yards, cleaned parts at the local garage, etc, etc. Whining about not having $15.00 an hour jobs at MacDonalds sticks in my craw. End of rant. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux Margaret River West Oz on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 07:42 am:

Hmm! After seeing this today at a large Supermarket I am worried. Flat battery in the calculator maybe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coco - Winchester Va. on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 08:15 am:

Posted without comment....oops, guess no comment is a comment....LSU 1971


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 10:39 am:

That pricing makes sense if you read it. There are 4 1.25 Litre bottles in the pack. The price is $4 per Litre, the pack contains a total of 5 Litres. If you buy the pack you pay $5 for 5 Litres, which is $4 per Litre.

I would assume that in a nearby cooler there are other brands that cost more or less per Litre and this is for comparison shopping.

Since it is in NZ, I also assume the prices are in NZ Dollars. I also assume that would be why the spelling is "Litre" instead of "Liter" as it would be in the US.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 10:39 am:

Wonder what happened to Rome??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 11:03 am:

It's still in New York. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

"If you buy the pack you pay $5 for 5 Litres, which is $4 per Litre"

Wouldn't $5 for 5 litres be one dollar per litre?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 12:49 pm:

Good chuckle, Steve! :-)

Notice the paradigm in my profile quotes:
Charles Osgood - "The only problem with 'common sense' is that it is not all that common."
Albert Einstein - "We are limited only by the depth of our own imagination."

Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 01:57 pm:

I read through most of these threads, but not all - so here are my two bits as a music teacher in the public school system for the past 24 years. Kids are a product of their home environment, ie. parents. Most at my level, junior high, are eager to please and inherently want to be successful. Of those who have poor support structures at home, a few rise above their status without parent support. Those are remarkable individuals, especially when they do not have a higher calling, ie. God. The rest rise and fall throughout JH and HS - generally fall.

Point in case - several years ago one spring, I was absent and the sub left a not-so-good report of my lower band. When I returned, I had several kids approach me before school started about what went on, as they were highly concerned that #1) things didn't go up to my expectations and #2) they were afraid that I was going to be upset with the class - I have been called a benevolent dictator before. That afternoon, the class met and I reported what I had been told and confirmed with the others that what I had heard was the truth. My next statement was that the problem boiled down to values relativism - the morals that are acceptable in one household may be different from another household. You could have heard a pin drop. The class was extremely quiet as I explained differences in family values expectations, etc. The end result was that, despite our personal differences, when attend our school we all must agree to follow the rules established by the administration; otherwise, find a different school to attend. Believe it or not, the kids truly listened and decided to make better choices. I didn't receive another bad sub report for the rest of the year.

I don't necessarily blame the today's generation for their lack of work ethic. Some of you won't like to hear this, but much of the problems that we see today are a result of the hippie generation (those who graduated in the 1960s) not disciplining their children, both behaviorally and academically. They didn't like how strict their parents were on them, so they chose the path of least resistance for their own children. I witnessed it growing up during the 1970s and 1980s. Then I saw my generation as adults not know how to raise their kids because they didn't have a good example to teach them.

The teachers in my district, Fife, work extremely hard to educate their children. I totally agree with some of the comments above. My grandfather could add columns of numbers in his head and I was always envious of that. My grandparents and parents have beautiful handwriting, yet with my generation, neatness wasn't the focus. Now, it is eliminated, not because of computers but because there isn't time in the day to teach it due to the state and federal mandates. The only way my daughter learned cursive is because my wife taught it to her; the only way my daughter will learn her states and capitals is IF I teach it to her; ; the only way she will learn outlining is because I choose to teach it to her. Kids aren't expected to learn dates so that they associate the important events of history with a time period - "we just dig deeper" is what I am told. Kids are expected to use computers, yet haven't practiced typing enough and are all over the place on the keyboard. Perhaps I live in the past, but I do not understand how the current system is any better. The intentional dumbing down of the United States? The addiction to mediocrity? Where have we gone wrong?

Yes, the current trend in education baffles me. Not every child is meant to go to college. We still need welders, machinists, cashiers, janitors, etc. Many creative classes (wood shop, metal shop, cooking, sewing) are being eliminated in order to get the core class(math, science, and english) test scores up. Much of what is being mandated to our core teachers is dictated on the state or national level. For example, Washington state is now mandating that english teachers have the kids read more fact based material, like articles from magazines or texts, than literary or historical fiction. The english teachers are up in arms because the value of reading creative works encourages the kids to write creatively.

If teachers deviate from the path and the kids have low state test scores, the government intervenes and begins their process of "remediation" of that school or district. It happened in Fife, not because our teachers did a poor job, but because Washington lumps every kid's test into the pool of test scores - this includes ALL special education students, as well as those who just moved to the U.S. and cannot fluently speak English. When those kids are averaged in, it drops the test scores and the school district gets penalized.

Believe it or not, the NEA doesn't like it any more than you or I do and seems powerless. If you all want changes, elect officials who believe the way you do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 02:34 pm:

Well put, Jim. We get what most of us vote for. Everybody votes. Some vote by going to the polls on election day, and others vote by staying away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erick Keenan - Vineland NJ 08360 on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

I lament the removal of the vocational / trade education in the public schools by missguided, professional educators that seem to have such disdain for work done with ones hands. It would not be a bad trade all college liberal arts for technical programs if the US ranked in the top 5 in math and Science but, not 29th. Makes me wonder if this isnít the reason for President Obama embarrassment and why he is always down on the USA when he is out on vacation in other countries. One thing is we will always have money for the sports.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW Troy, Mo. on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 08:09 pm:

I have been retired from teaching for 9 years. At that time there were moves to teach for test results. Many classes that taught life's skills were being elliminated. Even teacher's salaries in many school districts are strongly influenced by " how their students scored on standardized tests." I was able to keep my units on how to wire an outlet, install a new faucet, repair holes in Sheetrock. And other related topics. I am sure that is all gone today since there are no "standardized State or federal tests on things like that. Common Core takes testing to new levels. One presidential candidate really pushes Common Core. Glad he is doing poorly. Won't mention his name but his father and brother have been president.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Thomas - Centerville, Iowa on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 10:17 pm:

School is a lot like Walmart. I can go to Walmart and walk around for hours and come out with nothing. I can also go in there and come out with just about anything I need.

School is the same way. Some kids come in and get everything they need, and some just walk around. You should no more hold teachers responsible for what kids learn, than hold the clerks responsible for your buying something.

I was a teacher for many years. You can't make someone learn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, November 28, 2015 - 10:32 pm:

That's a good analogy, Michael.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 02:03 am:

First day of school speech for years, mostly with 5th graders 9 & 10 years old:

You can call me your TEACHER but what I see my job as is being your LEARNING HELPER. I can not MAKE you learn anything but I will HELP you learn all sorts of new things this year if you WANT to learn them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 06:41 pm:

Burger has said it best!
It is all in the content of one's character!
Well said indeed.......

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

Michael,

Very very interesting........

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, November 29, 2015 - 10:02 pm:

Jim Kelsey hits it on the head with the hippe thing.Very true. I was lucky that I was born to 2 parents that were not hippys in 67.My dad got a good job right out of the army and my mother was just out of school raised on a small farm. So I was taught to work.
Other kids born during that time and shortly after,well, look outside your door and see the mess.!
Common Core, what a bunch of manure that is.
Want to mess up somebody at the cash register? If your bill is 4.04, give them a 5 and 4 penny's. They sit there and some don't want to take the penny's you have to shove them towards them. I don't want to carry .96 cent in change just because they can't do math.

College. When i graduated high school in 1985 IBM could not hire enough qualified people. I was told by the "guidance counselor" I should go to the local tech college and get a degree in electronics. My grades C's. I was not that smart in school. I wasted nearly 3 of the best years of my life getting that degree. The very next day after I graduated there was the headline, "IBM lay's off 3000 workers".
So that put me going to a small video game shop and worked there for a while and I got a state job to eventually work on traffic lights. I liked the sign department and stayed there for the time i was able to work.

College is not for every body. Granted qualifications for college SHOULD NOT be related to money. help should be there for the 1's that need it that can make good of it.
Some folks, need to be building houses, driving the trash truck,bus, or train.
Not that those jobs are "lower" in standard than a doctor,but because society needs those positions filled just as much as the college graduate jobs.

Stan, your state has it's ducks still in a row apparently.
Charlie, kids may not be playing their music on lp but they should be taught history. As in how Edison made the recordings and how that lead to the stuff they use now.
Our future is built using the past as a foundation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 05:22 am:

When I went to school in the mid 50's through the late 60's, I did OK for a few years. By the time I got into high school, I hated school. I had a hell of a time trying to concentrate on anything. Even trying to read a car magazine or finish a model car project was hard, both of which I loved to do. I managed to graduate, but had no desire to go to any kind of advanced learning, read college. I have made a living by doing "blue collar" type of work,(mostly welding and fabrication) which still required a lot of thinking, (read common sense), along with a lot of physical labor, which I am very proud of. I still have the same problem, and just found out a couple of years ago that I have ADD. Back then, we were just "lazy", and didn't pay attention. I still have a hard time finishing a project, I just lose interest for a while. Later, I will get interested again and go back to work on it. My family still doesn't understand that. Can't blame them, I haven't understood it for 60+ years. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 03:05 pm:

A very interesting perspective!
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/11/30/university-president-rebukes-self-abso rbed-narcissistic-students.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 08:17 am:

David, you pretty much described my time in school. It wasn't that I didn't have the smarts, I just didn't apply my intelligence. I was able to attend a vo-tech school here in Minnesota and became a machinist. During my years of work I became certified as a Quality Technician and then a Quality Engineer with ASQC. I worked my way forward and became deeply involved with Process Engineering and Process Control. But I was held back from being a top level engineer in the facility where I worked because I didn't have a College diploma. I thought it strange that over the years I was good enough to train the young college guys that came and went like the place had a revolving door but I was still held back. Now looking back, I'm glad I finished high school, went to Vietnam and then used my GI bill for my somewhat limited education.

Secondary education isn't for everyone. I've got a very close friend who was a Master Plumber in the Twin Cities. He has a 9th grade education. He's also one of the most knowledgeable people I know. Especially when it comes to theology and history. To me, he's an example of someone who could have done much better for himself if he'd have applied his intelligence but a structured learning environment just didn't work for him. But, plumbing was his chosen profession and he was one of the top Master Plumbers in the Minneapolis/St Paul area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 10:39 am:

Michael:

I completely understand your frustration with being held back because you didn't have a piece of paperwork to get that higher echelon job. For the past several years, I have felt like I have achieved what I can with junior high age music kids and am looking for something different, ie. teaching at a college or university. That, however, requires a doctoral degree and, unless I am employed at a large school, will pay less than I am currently making. I have the skills to teach at that level, but without the paperwork, it is an impossibility.

Yes, I could teach high school and engage in upper level thinking; but, high school band directors do not have a life after their school day ends, especially ones that have a highly visible/active program.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 11:03 am:

Plumbing is not a bad way to make a living as long as you are licensed. Electric and heating, contractors are in the same 80.-90. per hour wage range here. That's not bad for four years of on the job training with an income from day one. Might be hard to get an apprenticeship unless you know some one or your dad is a plumbing, heating, or electric contractor. You might come home with dirty hands though!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Tuesday, December 01, 2015 - 11:46 am:

I hated school. I completed HS but I hated it. Was much more interested in making money.

After I retired from the military and subsequently got laid off from Boeing I couldn't find meaningful work(translate to $) with just a high school diploma. I "needed" additional education so I got an AA degree in Computer Information Systems.

My father (I am 61) had an 8th grade education, the most beautiful handwriting I have ever seen, and a need to make a living and support his family. He did so magnificently leaving my mother comfortable when he passed (he was a master electrician).

I watched my father with little education do well in the work force. My history (navy) carried me through my "principal work years", time to change jobs, and into my children's "principal work years" which forced me to re-educate myself. I am retired comfortably.

My children, one in the military and one working construction (both non-high school grads), are raising my grandchildren who will most likely need an education different from their parents.

My point is this. Educational needs are ever changing but SOME things remain the same. Chief among these things is teaching kids to think for themselves. As much as I hated school, the necessity for it remains and "we" will never all agree on all the particulars that the next generation needs.

I like how Stan Howe's "kids" are doing. I'm a country bumpkin at heart and like the values found in the country.


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