I need to find out the proper legal language to be used in advertisement to buy a title or a pink slip or whatever it is called in your state. I know it has been discussed at various times on the forum, but I cannot find it. Thank you for your help. Frank
What you are referencing is fraud.
I don't think it's fraud if the title comes along when purchased with a vehicle.
When you associate your name with the intent to solicit a title - registration - pink slip it is asking for trouble.
Frank, there is no "legal" way to buy a title. I see people selling them all the time, and using different terms for their advertisement, but nothing that is "legal"
Jim is correct. The "legal language" that applies to purchasing ownership documents then using them for another vehicle is fraud.
IMHO you'd be way better off researching the process in your state then obtaining a legitimate title for your vehicle.
Texas, for a while, would not accept new titles from certain states because of the "title businesses" in those states. I don't know if they are still rejecting those are not. You can find out by checking the procedure bulletins issued by Texas DPS. Texas also maintains a list of stolen titles reported by other states. Some of the bulletins make for an interesting read and address things like YOM plates. I believe that's where I read that they had to be original and couldn't be restored. The actual law doesn't state that.
Every state is different and many times the county tax office (for Texas) you visit may apply the procedures differently or with leniency. I once had a title application rejected because the previous owner started to sign in the wrong place. He got the letter to his first name started then put a slash through it. He then signed in the correct place. The office rejected it as a corrected title. Sombeaches!
In okla. just show all your receipts, and pictures to the judge. You give them $125. and they will give you a title.
Jim, I was being facetious. I wasn't talking about soliciting a title. I was talking about purchasing the vehicle and accepting the title it was originally assigned. I admit, it was a poor attempt at humor, but hey, it was getting late and the coffee was wearing off.
Frank, you may want to check into applying for a lost title or see if your state has a process for an involuntary transfer of title. These are perfectly legal ways of obtaining an original title but there is some red tape. The car will have to have a VIN search to ensure that it is not stolen and that nobody is laying claim to it. The odds of that are pretty low for a Model T.
And Mike, I wouldn't apologize, your comment was clear...particularly with the smiley face. Someone else uses those quite often.
One other thought:
If you go for a legitimate title, as you process the red tape just answer what you're asked, then shut up. Too much information will only cause problems. For example, if it's a 1920 Ford Model T Touring, then just say so. If you put it together from parts do not volunteer that information. There are horror stories about being told, since it was "assembled" in 2015 it mist comply with 2015 safety and smog standards. You do not want to go there.
Dang, Rick; now that you've let the "cat out of the bag"; expect the population and tourism traffic to Oklahoma, to explode like an IED.
Frank, instead of using a title service as some have suggested (and I have done twice, successfully), if you know a friend that lives in a NON-TITLE state (states that didn't issue titles, some until up in the sixties), ask him to apply for a title using your motor or VIN number, instead of someone else's. That is not illegal, if the non-title state issues the title under those conditions.
I realize your reply was tongue in cheek.
I have had first hand experience.
I have seen folks get taken advantage of more than once.
In WI if you don't have a title in hand you can pretty much forget getting one. Even with a title it can be one series of hoops after another you have to surmount. Your best bet might be to find and unfinished project car or bare bones car with a title and go from there.
Although I don't have to defend my actions, I offer an explanation of my statement above where I said that I had used a title service. One title was obtained for a Model T and I knew the owner but he had lost the title. He had owned the car since the early 1950's. The other title was obtained for a car that was legally purchased from the original owner in Indiana from the original selling dealer and he gave me the original Indiana title with the car. Getting an original title with a car, showing the original selling dealer and original purchaser, doesn't happen every day and I knew that when I applied for a Texas title that the Indiana title would be taken from me, thus I kept the original Indiana title and got a Texas title from a title service in another state.
For information purposes Ford barn which is a Ford old car site wont allow titles to be sold through their site. Or at least they indicated that in their buy and sell adds months ago.
In Texas to get a title for old cars you have to have a some type of bill of sale from the seller that you bought the car from. If that's done you can get a title going through the bonded title process.
I have seen guys at swap meets selling titles for old cars. Its done but its not legal.
Craigs list has old cars that are for sale without titles and the seller will usually say a bill of sale will be given. But it would have to be a really desirable car for me to buy it.
I appreciate all the help for this complex problem. I went down to the local MVD ( DMV ) today and they never even heard of a horseless carriage license plate, not to mention an application for a car that has not been registered before. ( built from pieces ) I kept my mouth shut about information but it looks like I will have a heck of a time getting title to this T once I finish it. Thanks for all the info. Frank
Every state is different, and most times the local office personnel haven't ever read the state laws....
Did a bit of research, here is the AZ law for old cars, its a pdf file, so hope your PC has that program.
Appears you can request an application for title, for a vehicle that hasn't previously been titled, have a police officer determine your vehicle is road worthy, have insurance, and then pay the fees. More of less fees if a serial number (VIN) has to be assigned.
Horseless Carriage plates in AZ are for cars dated 1915 or earlier.
In Iowa you can get a bonded title for a vehicle that has no title. You apply and they do a search to see if the vehicle is stolen. If they don't find anything, you post a bond, so that if someone shows up later and says, "that's my car" and can prove it, the bond pays off. One of my employees has done it many times for motor cycles. They do nave to be inspected to be sure the vehicle is complete and in legal running condition.
Not only are the laws in every state different, but individual bureaucrats vary widely in their knowledge and/or understanding of those laws, and in their attitudes. One person in the local office may see his job as helping you do what you want to do, while another in the same office may feel a duty to complicate your life as much as possible.
Here's how the DMV is portrayed in a new movie.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY73vFGhSVk
Roger, that without a doubt was recorded in the DMV office in St Cloud Minnesota. I am surprised however, they got away with walking straight to the counter without having to first "take a number and wait for their name to be called"!
The link that Dan Treace posted provides the info you need to make things happen.
Most -not all - registry people have no idea about what to do beyond the standard cars and are unwilling to do anything about it.
Dan's info makes you the expert and therefore you are in control.
One other thing to keep in mind. You didn't say what year model your T is or how you intend to use it. Before you chase down horseless carriage plates be sure to look into the restrictions they come with. In most states you are allowed only a limited set of circumstances that allow you to drive the car. It could be that regular plates may be better for you depending on your intended use.