'24-'25 closed car question.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: '24-'25 closed car question.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 03:25 am:

Does anyone know if anybody is making correct windshield slide arm nuts for the '24-'25 closed cars? Others may be the same,I think closed cab TT's are. The ones that the vendors have listed for them are for '19-'25 at around $20.00 each and are nowhere close, at least for the '24-'25 cars, judging from the picture/drawing. I bought a pair several years ago, but lost my invoice and couldn't return them. The knob is way too small and the thread on the stud is only 5/16", as I recall, anyway, it is way too small. I had to make mine by using the '26-'27 style repro "nuts", which are very close the knobs on my '25 coupe, and used 3/8" S.S. studs loctited in them. I haven't actually seen the ones that are sold in the new catalogs, but they look the same. I don't get it, the vendors have been listing that incorrect nut for years. Has no one else noticed this? Am I missing something? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims--Reed City,Mich. on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 08:43 am:

David, I am looking now at the side molding that the studs screw into on a 24 sedan. the threaded hole is 5/16. Yours may have been modified.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 10:40 am:

A few years ago when I was looking for some nice nickel plated slide arm nuts for my 24 Coupe I ordered some from Macs and noticed they were wrong as David S. stated.
I got mine from Mac's and sent them back for a refund. Evidently today the vendors are selling the same one's and their wrong. They all buy from the same supplier I guess.
If I remember none of the the suppliers sold the correct nuts and slide arms that my Coupe has back then.
Looks like they still don't.

Seems like I found that the 24-25 closed cars had some differences in the interior hardware going by some of the interior pics of other owners of 24-25 closed T's that were posted on the forum.

Hope this helps but maybe it wont!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 02:24 pm:

David,

Being one of the last good days before hibernation time...I went out and dug in 'the barn' where I have a never been touched never rotted or dinged 'tub' for a 25 Fordor...

Here's what I found...




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 02:30 pm:

correction.....it just dawned on me that it could actually be 2 parts plus the screw! Not that it matters much.........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 12:15 am:

OK. I had a bit of a brain fart. I was going by memory(dangerous!). My slide arm nuts are indeed 5/16" coarse thread, the repro ones appear to be 1/4" fine thread. The knob is 1" in diameter. My originals are identical to the ones in George's pictures, swelled pot metal and all. I just don't understand why the vendors still list the incorrect ones for the '24-'25 cars. Do those fit earlier cars? If so, I have a nice pair for sale. It seems to me that the correct ones could be made on a CNC machine pretty easily, maybe out of stainless steel and wouldn't need plating. Anyone out there checked in to this? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 11:05 am:

My 24 Fordor the nuts were brass that had nickel plating on them, I thought they were pot metal until I scratched one badly.
The windshield swing arms are special with the curve in them, originally the upper windshield would pull in as well as push out, the side gaskets which are not made would allow this, I have the drawing for the gasket and have sent it to several vendors but they are not interested in making it.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 03:54 pm:

Rick, those swing arms are another item that aren't reproduced, at least to my knowledge. It looks to me that they could be cutout of stainless steel on a water jet machine very easily. Polished up, they would look very much like nickel. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 07:09 pm:

The vendors seem to have the wrong years listed for the Windshield Screw Arm Thumb Screws. I'm not sure of the years the small ones fit - it may be the 1919 - 1923 Suicide Door coupes. The correct ones for the 24-25 coupe are the ones George shows. There are two styles of them. One style as the straight knurls, the other has cross knurls. I think the cross knurls are for the 24 model year and the straight knurls are for the 25 model years, but I'm not positive on that. The 26-27 used a similar knob but it has a tapped hole instead of the threaded stud.

I was going to look into having these made but the project got put on the back burner and forgotten about. Maybe its time to dust it off.


The windshield side rubber pieces are available.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/18812.aspx

At one time I had a bunch of the swing arms laser cut. They weren't that expensive, but the company did a terrible job on them. They looked like they were cut using a blow torch. I ended up scrapping the whole batch of them. I had them quoted at a different supplier and his price was much more expensive - more than was feasible to sell them for so the project died.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 04:17 am:

Thanks Dave for checking in to these projects. Let us know if you make any progress with them. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 09:18 am:

David Stroud: just wondering if you still have the nickel plated inside finger pulls on your Coupe's windshield. I sure hope you do as those are some more closed car parts that's nobody is making. I was lucky that they were still on my 24 Coupe when I inherited it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 01:14 pm:

Hey John. Well, yes and no. I do have the finger pulls, BUT, they aren't nickel plated. As far as I've been able to find out, the nickel plated ones that are mounted with two screws through the back side of the windshield frame are a '24 feature. The windshield retainer is seperate. In '25, they were changed to a combination finger pull/retainer that is mounted with one screw in the back of the frame and one that goes up in the bottom to hold the glass. As far as I could see, there was no plating on them, so I painted them black. These features appear to be one year only for each one. I do have an extra set of the nickel plated ones that would clean up nicely for a driver or could be replated for a "fancy" T. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 12:31 pm:

-Dave-
Took a photo of the original '26 TT knobs for reference. They have the 5/16" X 20 thread, but the style is completely different than what we need. Let us know what you discover from vendors. Thx.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, December 07, 2015 - 01:22 pm:

Marv, I used the repro version of these and made a 5/16" stainless steel stud (cut off bolt) and screwed it in the knob with blue(removable strength) Loctite. Works for now. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, December 07, 2015 - 01:26 pm:

Hey!!!! Any of you supplier/vendors out there paying attention to this thread? Hello, hello! Just trying to help you get your cataloges straightened out, concerning the knobs not fitting the '24-'25 closed cars. Getting the correct ones made would be a plus too! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber on Monday, December 07, 2015 - 02:54 pm:

Just to add to the database here if I may, I have a mid 25 Tudor with curved adjusting arms of heavy brass and are nickel plated. The adjustment knobs are also nickel plated brass with a threaded stud; very similar to what Dave initially posted. The finger-pulls are nickel plated and attached with two screws to the back of the frame. I don't know if this helps or makes the situation worse.

Charles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 07, 2015 - 11:10 pm:

I should have checked the threads closer... 5/16 has the standard 18 tpi.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 01:19 am:

David Stroud: Are these the types of nuts you are needing?

nuts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 01:23 am:

In the morning I will look at my 24 coupe and see what is on it.

picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 10:53 am:

Dave, the top two on the left are what is used on the '24-'25 closed cars. The other six with the female thread are for the '26-27 cars, I don't know if they are used on both the closed and open cars or not. The two slide arms are for '24-'25 closed cars, those nuts that are on them aren't correct. The TT"s may or may not have used either style or both, I dunno. Those slide arms are not reproduced either, as far as I know. I think they are unique to the '24-'25 closed cars, possibly some TT's. The other two "winged" nuts, I have no idea what they are for. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 10:57 am:

I made some nuts for my '25 coupe by cutting the heads off of a couple of stainless steel bolts, and screwed the resulting studs in the repro '26-'27 style nuts and secured them with blue Loctite. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 01:02 pm:

My solution was to machine my own out of steel. Brass would have been better or stainless or aluminum. The plating was more than most would want to spend on a re-pro. I'm sure vendors have looked into these. There is probably not enough of a demand for a reasonable run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 06:14 pm:

Beautiful work Richard, as is all of your work. Yes, I suppose there isn't enough demand for the vendors to make these, but what gripes me is that they keep advertising the ones that aren't even close as being for the '24-'25 closed cars. I know for a fact that they have been listing them that way for at least the last five years. You would think they would figure it out after they have had who knows how many returned. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Ida Fls on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 06:32 pm:

It is frustrating. The Escutcheon plates for the window riser handles that are available are another part that is far from correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 09:39 pm:

As are the handles! I have found some nice handles though on ebay. Only problem is, the risers have been replaced with the '26-'27(and Model A, I think) style that use a set screw on the side of the handle instead of the screw that threads into the end of the riser shaft. I haven't found any screws yet, but I have an idea on how to make a couple, if I can find the correct risers. I have no idea if the escutcheons that I have are correct or not. I haven't gotten that far yet. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 11:26 pm:

OK, here we go again!<g> Does anyone know for sure what the smaller slide nuts(the 1"dia.x1/4" stud)fit? I have a couple of them, brand new, never used,(because they don't fit the '24-'25 closed cars) that I would like to sell on the classifieds, but I don't know what to advertise them for. They surely must fit something, don't they? I would make somebody a heck of a deal on them, they need a new home. I can't use them for paper weights, they're too small! Any ideas? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims--Reed City,Mich. on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 09:55 am:

David, the small knobs are for the lower windshield on the 21 coupe and likely for other suicide door coupes. They may also fit the center door sedan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 12:09 pm:

Thanks Jim. Dave


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