Restoration of 1926 Model T Touring

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Restoration of 1926 Model T Touring
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 10:43 pm:

Finally purchased our first Model T. We chose a touring model so we could take our two boys with us when we take it out for a ride. The car was located 4 1/2 hours away from me so once I got there it was pretty much coming home no matter what...

The seller was asking $4900 but I only paid $4,000 for the car. Not sure whether or not I over paid for it. It is missing the following items: Battery, coils, headlights, top bows, windshield and a whole bunch of misc. little items here and there. It came with a new interior kit, and a box full of misc hardware. The body that is painted with grey primer has been completely blasted, metal patches welded in and is ready for final sanding and paint. The front fenders, aprons and running boards need minimal bodywork and they will be ready for paint. The car also needs new tires as the old ones are completely dry rotted.

My thought with buying this car was that although it is somewhat of a project, at least I know what I am starting with. There isn't a ton of hidden rot underneath a pile of bondo and paint. I also didn't think that I would be able to part with 10K-12K to get a decent car that was going to be hassle free. I know in the end I will probably double the purchase price in parts but at least I can do it a little at a time. I plan to do all of the work myself (I have a ton to learn but I am fairly mechanical and can pick it up fairly quickly I think - Hope...)

So far I have taken all of the fenders, Running boards and aprons off of the car. My plan is to get the body off the car and start stripping down the chassis and preparing it for sandblasting. The chassis was already primed for paint but I'm not sure that I like they way it was done so I'm going to do it over again. Seems like the more I look the car over the more questions I have. It's hard to know what it's missing because I don't have another car to look at to compare. I'm sure I will have a ton of questions in the next few weeks/months as I dig deeper and deeper.

I was thinking of making a "to do" list and trying to tackle the things on the list one at a time. Does anyone have suggestions for the order in which I tackle the chassis? Should I tear the rear end apart and rebuild it prior to sandblasting or should I take it apart, sandblast the axle halves, paint them, then re-assemble?

Here are a few pics of the car. I'll add more pics as I get into the project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 03, 2015 - 11:31 pm:

I see you've been following the forum for a couple of years, so you probably already know some of this, but I'll pretend you're starting from scratch.

Start here: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Check with the previous owner and see if this has been done. If not, or if he doesn't know, you'll need to do it before you drive any more than just around the block. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html

As you take things apart, take plenty of pictures showing how they go together. I guarantee you'll forget. Use plenty of pixels and take good pictures.

Use bags, tags, or some kind of marking to keep track of nuts, bolts, and other fasteners.

You can use Milt Webb's checklist to prepare the car to run. It doesn't cover assembly as such, but you can deduce from it what needs to be there. You can consult parts books and ask on the forum to find what's missing and needs to be replaced. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG93.html

I would take the time to do individual pieces rather than paint assembled assemblies. For example, completely dismantle a spring, derust all the parts, and paint all the leaves clips, and bolts separately rather than just shooting paint over the whole works. You'll take longer this way, but I think it's worth the effort.

There's a lot to do, but you'll have lots of help here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 10:05 am:

This is the way I do it, but to each their own. I usually start with the frame. Do any repairs needed and make sure it is straight. Then paint it and then level it, on strong saw horses or stands. Make sure it is very level in both directions. It will become your build platform, I then do the springs, and spring clamps. clean, fix, paint, and attach. Then I restore the front axle assembly or rear axle assembly. Same thing clean, fix, paint, attach. Just keep doing it in stages and assemblies, till its done. Steve's suggestions are good about the rear axle brass washers needing checked, and keeping everything organized. Try to save all the original bolts you can. A lot of the repro bolts are different. They work OK, but look different. Good luck with the build and have fun ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 10:23 am:

I'll add a little to Donnie's comment on fasteners. Some of the nuts and bolts you get from the parts dealers are accurate reproductions, and some are modern stuff that doesn't even come close. R. V. Anderson makes perfectly accurate reproductions of many fasteners, but because they're perfectly accurate they ain't cheap, so you want to save and reuse as many originals as possible. One exception is wheel bolts. If I have to rebuild a wheel I'll use new bolts for sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, Mostly in Dearborn on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 10:58 am:

Are there any parts in boxes that you're not showing us? Particularly top irons and a windshield with stanchions?

These items can be hard to find and reproductions are pricey.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 11:51 am:

Do you know anything about the engine? You will need at minimum $1000 to fix up the engine and up to $3000 or more if you replace the crankshaft with a new one. The above figures would be if you took the parts to a machine shop for grinding and did the disassembly and reassembly yourself. Also look for $1000 or so to completely rebuild the transmission and balance it. You also need to check the rear axle for babbit bushings and replace with bronze and replace any other worn parts you find in the rear axle.

If it were my car, I would do things in this order:
1. Get a clear title to the car. Without a title, you could be wasting your money on it.
2. Before you take anything apart, try to start the engine. You will need new oil and clean fuel to do this. Then see if you can drive the car around for a short distance and listen for knocks, and see how it shifts. You might get lucky and be able to use the engine and transmission just as they are.
3. Be sure and check the rear axle for babbit even if it drives OK. If it does have babbit and the babbit fails you lose not only the ability to drive the car, but also the brakes!
4. Also check the condition of the front axle. Jack up and try to move the wheels back and forth by pulling the top and pushing the bottom right to left and see how the spindle bushings are. If they wobble back and forth, you will need to rebuild the front axle.
5. After a thorough examination of the above, if you are not confident in your own abilities, ask the members of the local club for leads on who can come over and help you check things out.
6. Next I would remove the body and start on a chassis rebuild, check for diagonal measurements to be sure it is square. Then measure for sag in the area around where the rear engine mounts are located. Straighten if you find the need.
7. Clean, and paint all chassis parts. Disassemble the springs and clean and paint the leaves. Use the proper lubricant between the spring leaves and reassemble them. Clean and paint the axles and do any needed work on the engine and transmission and reassemble the chassis to a, "rolling chassis".
8. Start on the body and fenders. Remember to get everything completely smooth before you apply the final coats. Paint will not fill in the low spots. It will flow into the cents and emphasize them. You can get very small dents and hammer marks smooth with multiple coats of primer and sand until it is completely smooth.
9. Paint the body parts while apart. Then bolt together after they are painted.
10. replace all wood parts. Note these can be cut and fitted and those which will not show, such as the tack strips and seat supports can be bolted in place.
11. Tack in the upholstery.

A few things I didn't mention before. The 1926 gas tank is not available as a reproduction, so be sure it is completely clean before you install it. A good radiator shop can boil it out and seal it with a sealer which is not soluble by gasoline.

While you are waiting for engine work, you can start working on the body, but it should be placed on the chassis after you have a rolling chassis. You will also get the doors to fit better if you have a straight chassis which is on the axles and set the body in place while you fit the doors.

In the mean time while you are doing the other work, you need to visit swap meets and see if you can find a good set of bows. at least the metal part should be good. The wood can be replaced easily but the reproduction metal parts will run about $1000. On a 26 you can put the straight part of the wood in and rivit in place. The curved portion on mine is made out of oak venier. You can get this in a strip from Home Depot with glue backing. cut and bend one strip at a time until you fill the space. Each strip can be heated with a good hair drier and it will glue to the others.

After painting the bows you can put them on the car and install the top.

If you have the complete windshield, be sure to check for safety glass. The original glass was plate glass and if shattered can kill a person. Safety glass can be bought and installed by a good glass shop.

The last thing I installed on my 26 touring was new tires. I wanted fresh rubber and didn't know how long it would take to do the entire car. I probably put in about one year working full time on the car, but it took 10 years working in spare time to do the work. I was retired when I bought the car, and planned it for a retirement project, but then a week later the phone rang and I went back to work for another 16 years! Here are only a few pictures of what I worked with.
Norm



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Benjamin on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 12:32 pm:

Michael:

Welcome to the fun! It looks like like you've got a fine start in the Model T hobby. It's a blast.

The guys here will be very helpful. In fact, you've already got some good suggestions. Ask lots of questions.

I came into the hobby about 15 years ago in a way similar to yours; finishing up somebody's project. Within a year or so I had a fun (and safe) driver, with the help of the guys here and a local T guy who was delighted to discover my interest. Thanks to all!

Season's Greetings,

Rick Benjamin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 08:34 pm:

Greetings Michael,

Learn to expect the unexpected. It can be disappointing to find something that looks ruined or seems un repairable, but it can be dealt with, it just takes a little extra time and a little extra money. This is a hobby, and a fun one. The form is a great tool. The people that participate here want you to succeed. Like others have said.... have fun


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 09:02 pm:

Thanks so much for everyone's responses. Looks like I may get a few hours tomorrow to start to tear into it a bit more. My garage isn't heated yet and with a Vermont winter just beginning I'm not sure how much I'll get to work on it without some sort of heat soon. I'm going to try to take a bunch of pics tomorrow and then finish taking the body off to begin. Norman suggested getting the motor running first and although I think that is a good idea, I'm going to dive right in to the Chassis for now. I have a feeling that I may open up the motor to inspect a few things prior to getting it running as I have no idea what condition is is currently in. The previous owner hadn't driven the car in almost 10 years. I'll update with a few pics tomorrow.
Anyone know how to get the large pics in my post? I kept getting errors that my pics were too big. The pics are being taken with an iPhone 6s.
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, December 04, 2015 - 09:35 pm:

There's a picture file size limit of 250 KB. I make a copy to resize and keep the original full size. Resizing is easy on an iMac. It's less easy but possible on a Windows machine. There are also free websites that will resize pictures for you. Just Google resize.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 06:01 pm:

Took a few minutes to take off all the fenders, running boards, radiator, and hood. I unbolted the body and am ready to take it off the chassis. Trying to figure out where I'm gonna store the body for the winter while I work on the chassis. Once I figure that out, I'll lift it off and start taking it apart. Here are a few pics of it once it was striped down.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 06:02 pm:

Looks like one of the valves is sticking... Guess I'll have to take off the head and see what's going on. Any thought?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 06:42 pm:

Take the plug out for that cylinder and using the straw that comes with penetrating oil direct the spay over to the valve and soak it well then let it sit over night. The next day you should be able to pull the valve down carefully and spray some PB Blaster or Kroil on it and run it up and down a few times before you resort to pulling the head. If it doesn't move then take the keeper and spring off by compressing the spring and using an awl or ice pick through the keeper pin hole move it from side to side as you gently push it up and down while you spray it with the penetrating oil. If it doesn't work out easily don't force it. Keep soaking it with penetrating oil. Once it frees up you can replace the spring and keeper by holding the valve head down with something through the spark plug hole. I use a screw driver that I have heated and bent up to reach the valve. I have never had one that would not free up without a little patience and rarely have to resort to removing the valve spring because soaking the valve stem and using the compression tension of the valve spring is usually all you need if you are willing to wait and let the penetrating oil do its job. Of course if you are planning to pull the head anyway I would just do it now and get it over with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt Foye on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

Michael, congrats and welcome to the sickness of T ownership. This is your first, not your last....

I have the fender light bar and headlight buckets for your car. I'm getting rid of my 26/27 stuff. These are paint gloss black and ready to bolt on. Let me know if interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 06:50 pm:

Great advice. I won't pull it if I don't have to. I was planning on checking compression to see where it's at. I'm not sure I want to rebuild the motor if I don't have to. I'm going out to the garage right now to spray it. I'll look at it in the morning and see how it looks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 05, 2015 - 07:01 pm:

Great advice. I won't pull it if I don't have to. I was planning on checking compression to see where it's at. I'm not sure I want to rebuild the motor if I don't have to. I'm going out to the garage right now to spray it. I'll look at it in the morning and see how it looks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 08:11 am:

You are not going to have any compression with those stuck valves. I would pull the cylinder head in order to be able to more easily work on the valves, and to see the condition of the cylinder walls. If the cylinder walls are surface rusted then you might be better off just getting started with an engine rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 09:39 am:

I'm starting to do the research on rebuilding the real axle. I've read a ton of posts on here about it but I'm more of a visual learner and have a hard time understanding exactly what everyone is talking about since I don't know the names of all the parts/pieces. Is anyone aware of a youtube video(s) that will walk you through an entire rear axle rebuild?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 09:54 am:

https://www.google.com/search?q=model+t+ford+rear+axle+rebuild+youtube&rlz=1C1PR FA_enUS447US447&oq=model+t+ford+rear+axle+rebuild+youtube&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i6 4.8261j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 11:53 am:

Support the club - buy the three dvd's on rear axle repairs: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/restoration-videos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 06, 2015 - 01:13 pm:

Yes, watch the videos. BUT, also get the MTFCA Axle book by Glen Chaffin. I find that the book is a handier reference when I'm in the midst of doing the work. It's much easier for me to keep the book turned to the page that covers what I'm doing than it is to search all through a video for it. The book has pictures, so you'll know what parts it's describing, and equally important, it tells you what to measure. My only little quibble is that Glen is impartial on whether to use the stock pinion bearing or the Fun Projects version. I'll go with the FP bearing every time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 02:51 pm:

I got some time today to get the body off of the car. It came of fairly easy. Next, the motor. Once the motor is out, I'll start taking the chassis apart, labeling everything, cleaning up the small parts by hand, and get it all ready to sandblast. The weather here has been pretty nice and mild for Vermont but I'm afraid of sandblasting the car now because I won't have warm enough weather to prime and paint it until spring.

Should I rebuild the rear end before I sandblast and paint or should I sandblast it first, then rebuild it once it has been blasted? Any thoughts...



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 03:13 pm:

You really don't want any sand getting into the rear axle after rebuilding.. If you want to start right now, maybe wire wheeling the rust off will do? A large wheel on an angle grinder is quite effective :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 05:24 pm:

The title at the top of this page is Restoration of 1926 Model T Touring. In my book restoration means that you disassemble assemblies, thoroughly clean all the individual parts, sandblast the parts you're going to sandblast, replace or repair parts that need it, mask any areas of painted parts that shouldn't be painted, paint, assemble, and touch up if needed. Roger is exactly right. You do NOT want to sandblast a completed assembly like the rear axle. No matter how well you think you've taped every possible opening, sand WILL get inside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 05:57 pm:

I agree with the post that says first get a clear title. Until you do, what you have is a pile of parts. If the engine and transmission are OK, you did not overpay. I also agree with Steve's post. If you are restoring the car, everything will come apart to the last screw or nut. There are many opinions on this, but I love drivers and don't care much about museum pieces. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I love my soon-to-be 89 year old survivor. I can't wait to drive it again next spring and summer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 06:02 pm:

I find it is very convenient to sandblast the front and rear axle assemblies as units. Then I tear them apart, and send the rear end housings and drive shaft tube to the machine shop to be vatted. There is no sand on or in anything when I am ready to reassemble.

I would not recommend sandblasting the rear end and then painting it and expecting it to work properly. Guaranteed there is trouble lurking in a Model T rear axle that you have not rebuilt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 11:18 pm:

Well, Guess I should have re-worded my title... Instead it should have been titled "Resurrection of 1926 Model T Ford".

I am by no means an expert at this sort of work. I'm sure in the end it will come out just fine. Especially since I want this to be a driver and not a museum piece. I do plan on taking all the pieces apart (leaf springs, etc.) and painting them all individually. I just wasn't sure about how to tackle the rear end. I'll tear it apart, sand blast the halves, prime, paint and re-assemble with new internal parts.

As far as the title goes, in VT you don't need a title on a vehicle that is older than 15 years. DMV won't even take one if you have it...


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