New wheel bolts: Shorten? Stake? Peen?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: New wheel bolts: Shorten? Stake? Peen?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 12:30 pm:


These new bolts extend a considerable distance past the nuts. Is there a non-aesthetic reason to shorten them?

What's the proper term for mashing the threads to keep the nut on? Are staking and peening synonymous? If not, what is the difference?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims--Reed City,Mich. on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 12:35 pm:

Looks like you are using bolts made for the rear wheels. Cut them off and peen the ends or use a center punch and stake them by denting between the nut and bolt, This will distort the threads and prevent them from working loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 12:38 pm:

Steve,

I usually shorten them.

Peening is when you hammer over, (mushroom), the end, kind of like riveting. Staking is when you center punch the end of the bolt, near the thread, to deform the thread. Or, when you place the center punch just at the corner between the bolt & nut and deform the bolt thread and some of the nut as well. In this case, peening is better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 12:47 pm:

If we're talking about the front wheels, a few drops blue Loctite will help keep things secure—and the front nuts and bolts are accessible enough to check for tightness every now and then. _I had once peened the heck out of the bolts on my rear wheels and then was presented with the need to remove them. _That necessitated the purchase and use of an angle grinder to vaporize the fused nuts and bolts. _I won't make that mistake again. _Loctite works just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 12:49 pm:

Peened over bolts on front hub.


Peened over hub bolts.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 01:59 pm:

I can only say what I'd do (and what do I know?) but I'd just stake them, because to peen them over, you'd have to cut them off anyway, right? Unless some protrude out further than others, in which case they'd look a lot better if they were all the same length. And if you have to cut most of them off to obtain equal length, ya' might just as well peen them I'd think,....FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 02:12 pm:

I would do what Bob Coiro suggests. Loctite works great and you can tighten up the bolts as the wood shrinks. In addition, much easier to remove a bolt in case it twists off during tightening.

The bottom line...do what Steve Jeff would like!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 03:11 pm:

Steve,

The part sellers sell the length that works for the rear ones, which are 1/4" longer than original front bolts. You need to lop off 1/4" from each one on front hubs using a high speed cutoff tool, then peen them over. Rear ones come out about the right length, so you just have to peen them.

You should have no more than one thread exposed before you pen the bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 06:57 pm:

Steve,
I know you like to things right. I should buy new right front wheel bolts and replace this ones, then peen them over.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 11:13 pm:

Not arguing with you Dan but just bashing the ends of too long bolts won't do a thing towards keeping them from loosening. At least not as the picture shows. Cut them flush with the nuts and center punch in 2 or 3 spots around the circle that's left. (the end of the bolt). That will lock it in place. What you show in your picture will let the back out simply because there's clean thread for them to back out on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 10:02 am:

LOCTITE is your friend (& staking) !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 11:53 am:

The bolts I've gotten from Bob's in the past have been correct.

Measured from under the head:

Rear hub bolts are 2+1/8" Long

Front hub bolts are 2" Long

If everything with your wheel, hub, spokes, and the nut you are using is correct, there will be maybe a little less than 1/8" inch of thread that you are supposed to peen over just enough to keep the nut from backing off. Several years later if you need to tighten them up a bit, you will be able to. Then just peen them a little more. If you use any thread-locker (locktite, etc) you will not be able to tighten them at a later date...

The parts vendors also do have a tendency to get the front and rear hub bolts mixed up.

Some hobbyists may have issues if they are using the incorrect nuts (from the hardware store or their hardware pile) which can present the appearance of a problem with the bolts...

T wood wheel nuts are thinner than a standard nut and have an oversize hex.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 02:25 pm:

Blue Loctite is rather easy to "tighten" if need be - if one doesn't "stake" simply back off a few threads & re-apply. They also produce a locking product to apply after tightening a fastener.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 02:50 am:

Steve, I would shorten them and peen them over. It is a piece of cake to re-tension them at a later date if any get loose. Just run them up and give them another whack with the hammer to re-peen them in the new position.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 04:21 am:

I would do, and have done, as Allan B. said. Works great. Staking is OK, but in this case I prefer peening, if it is done correctly. Just banging on the end of the threads may work, but peening is much like riveting. The end of the bolt needs to be worked down all around, like a rivet, not just banged down in a spot or two. It can still be tightened later if needed. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 11:08 am:

This is how they need to be. They will never come loose if they are installed like this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 11:27 pm:

Is it true to say that it's only the rear wheel bolts that tend to loosen in time? I used Locktite on my 26 wooden spoked wheels and never had an issue with the front or rear coming loose. Others have had the rear loosen after 12 months after they purchased new wooden wheels. The front set were fine. The general thought was the torque going through the rear hubs was the cause more so than the wood shrinking.
Was there an issue back in the day with nuts coming loose?
Everybody checks the front hubs regularly but not the rear I'm sure. Locktite and staking is my preference
Alan in Western Australia


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 07:45 am:

I have had the front bolts loosen the same way. Peen them over, no more trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 09:12 am:

Royce's advice about cutting off the excess until only 1 thread is left exposed is golden. If more material is left, the bolts will never peen properly and may back off some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 02:37 pm:

Factory way....shortened to last thread or two and then peened over flush.....original wheels in these photos.









Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 02:46 pm:

Yup,That's what they did but if Henry had Locktight, i'll bet that's what he would have used! Bud.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration