Larry Smith's New Muffler Pipes--WOW!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Larry Smith's New Muffler Pipes--WOW!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 08:39 pm:

Just got back from our great Southern California Engine trip, and stopped at Larry's on the way to avoid shipping charges on his new muffler pipe for 21-27 Ts.
He's created a very nice, correct pipe, mandrel bent & all; even the end formed for the running board bolt the holds the muffler end on. Here's some pictures of them. Finally, a pipe that actually fits!!
The new pipe


The first bend


First & Second bends


New and an NOS pipe


Ford Script on NOS pipe


He's had a few made; some folks don't realize what an investment it takes to do a production run like this & then hope enough sell. . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 09:57 pm:

What's stuck in the end of the pipe David? Is it some sort of baffle?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 10:08 pm:

Does he make earlier pipes, say for a 1914?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 10:24 pm:

As far as I know this is his fist stab at it, 22-27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott McWilliam on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 10:38 pm:

I received the first pipe he sold. Excellent. I thank Larry for spending his time and money on an improved product. Scott McWilliam


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 10:52 pm:

Guys, all I've ever seen are reproduction pipes so I need an education. What is the purpose of the heat formed ring/seam and also, the reason for the cut out sections and what looks to be a partial plug just in from the end.

Being that this pipe is as close to a NOS example as we can get I more then likely will purchase one.

Charles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 11:00 pm:

Don't know, I've asked Larry that myself...I think that the pipe end is actually inserted into the muffler and acts like the third shell...but I'm not sure.

Larry asked me to draw the assembly a week or two ago, but I was busy with the rear axle. As soon as I get the details squared away I'll post that assembly here too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 11:13 pm:

This is a great product for the black radiator T. I had an original pipe and muffler on my 25 roadster (since sold) that I found at a swap meet. It fit, thus eliminating the problems of the so-called original looking muffler assemblies that were being sold. There is quite a difference .Way to go Larry. A need is filled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 12:12 am:

For those not familiar with the original assembly, the upset holds the front muffler stamping in place, and yes, the muffler pipe is also the inside pipe for the muffler, it only uses the middle pipe and the outside shell. The end of the pipe has four holes in it, two are for the gases to pass into the muffler, the other two, much smaller are cuts to allow two pieces to fold inward. These hold a flat piece the hold the head of a running board bolt, the threaded end sticks out of the end of the pipe, and you run a lock washer and a nut onto the bolt to hold it in place. Then you put on the middle tube, and outer shell, and the end plate. The bolt sticks out of the end plate, a cupped washer goes on, a lock washer, and finally a nut that when tightened holds the whole assembly together. Ford was very clever!
This is a quick sketch to try to help the above make sense! It shows a 3/4 view of the pipe end, and two cut aways, one with the bolt in place. The small piece drawn separately is the piece that holds the bolt head in place. Actually the early version of this piece was a U channel piece.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 12:39 am:

Here's a sketch of the shell assembled to the pipe.
Granted, these are just quick sketches, I hope they help explain the arrangement of parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 01:47 am:

Ahhh, so the pipe itself holds the muffler together? The carriage bolt goes in the big hole and the slot below that is where that plate locks the carriage bolt goes. Then you fit the rear muffler housing onto the bolt end and this sandwiches the front, shells and the rear together, eliminating welds, or clamps?

Woo, fancy. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 05:39 am:

I assume this pipe works and fits with the currently sold, stamped steel end, take apart muffler?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 09:43 am:

No, it won't fit the repro muffler - you need to have an original stamped steel muffler for donor parts or CUT Larry's pipe to the length of the incorrectly shaped, cheapo repro pipe to fit !

Nice Job, Larry !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 10:07 am:

I always wondered why the holes in the running board bracket on top.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 10:49 am:

Thank you David for the KIND words. As a lot of you know we have a motto on our reproduction parts. If we can't make a part as good as Ford made it, we won't do it. Too many reproductions parts miss the boat. If you are going to do a reproduction, do it right or don't do it! The welded bead we did on our pipes can be dressed down, and smoothed out in about 20 minutes, but don't have to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 10:57 am:

I have tried clamping the front of the muffler (that is the stamped repro muffler) to the pipe and find that it either pulls the muffler apart or pulls the pipe away from the manifold. This does not happen without a clamp because the pipe can move in and out or around with the flexing of the car.

I wonder if having a solid pipe such as Larry has made will cause the same problems or if he has found a way to solve that problem?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 11:42 am:

This did not happen on the original because the pipe was bent correctly so that the assembly was properly aligned to match a attachment points at manifold and frame hole. I feel confident Larry's are the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 11:51 am:

Since our pipes are made correctly, how can there be a problem? Ford used no clamps, only one standard engine bolt and castle nut to hold the muffler to the frame. I've had an original Ford unit on my '25 pickup for years, and it works as it is supposed to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 12:29 pm:

Larry, your exhaust pipes look amazing - would you ever consider making earlier ones? I have a 1914 T that could use a new system!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Richmond, Texas on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 12:52 pm:

Steve T., when I asked if the repo stamped steel mufflers would work; I was referring to the stamped steel end take apart muffler and not a welded muffler of any kind, take apart or not. So nothing will work with Larry's pipe except original factory muffler ends? What a shame, for a pipe that can't be used unless you have an original muffler than isn't reproduced and you don't see on Ebay or at swap meets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 01:39 pm:

Terry,
Have patience, what you ask for MAY happen soon. Larry showed me a NOS muffler end. It's interesting because the early ones were made from scrap fender material, which isn't thick enough for the job, so. . .. Ford just put two pieces of scrap together and stamped them; the stamping locks them together, and the finished item is thick enough! BTW, I have found ends at swap meets fairly regularly.
When I got home and was putting stuff away, I looked under Barney, which is my barn fresh '25 roadster. His running gear appears to be fairly low mileage, and yep, he has the original muffler & tailpipe on him still, so the assembly must work pretty well!
The ends are pretty rugged, what usually goes away is the outer shell. BTW, for those who don't know it, Larry makes quite a few correct T parts that the vendors sell, he's familiar with making stuff correctly!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, December 10, 2015 - 02:28 pm:

As far as the muffler end pieces go, did the original back ends have the exhaust outlet slot oriented to point towards the differential housing, as the new ones do? My '25 touring has an original muffler with the outlet slot located maybe 90 degrees counterclockwise from the location that blows exhaust all over the rear end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:46 am:

When I was at Hershey, a guy had a whole stack of NOS front muffler ends, but we couldn't come to terms, so I left them there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 05:22 pm:

Jerry, it seems it does, but it appears to be just a slot opening on the rear muffler plate

MufflerParts.jpg

The one Larry is talking about is the 4037C Pipe, with the 4026C Front Plate, 4040C Rear Plate and the 4032 bolt retainer. The shells 4027 (outer) and 4028 (inner) are then only other pieces used in the assembly that are shown in picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 11:27 am:

Right on Martin. The only piece not shown in the illustration above is the large dished washer that is placed directly against the 4040C rear muffler end before the lock washer and nut. This washer is 1 1/4" dia., with a 3/8 hole. I'm looking into having some of these made. I've got a lot of money invested in this project, and I doubt if I'll ever do any better than breaking even! BTW, the cost of the pipe is $89 plus shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 04:08 pm:

I've used original pipes on my MT 500 cars. These should make nice Mt 500 exhaust pipes! Thanks, Larry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 04:29 pm:

Is there any plans to do the earlier cars?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 11:29 am:

I plan on making the '13-'20 pipes as soon as I can get a suitable original pattern. Any one have one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Jull in Oakland on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 12:20 pm:

Larry you have done fabulous work and I commend you on it. Now you need to sell them. Do you have a web site that you sell them through or do we just send you a PM? Can we just stop by your place if we are in the area? If so what is your address? Is there a phone number? Some people on this forum know who you are but many don't. So if you want to sell things then please make it simple for everyone to contact you to buy the products.

I suggest that whenever someone recommends a persons product, they include as much information about how to purchase it in the first post. That way anyone that comes across it does not have to try to figure out how to go about buying it.

Does anyone know if there is a way to show in your profile that you are associated with a business including contact information?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 01:21 pm:

Larry.. here is the pipe on my 13. Looks like the original one to me. Do you agree?pipe2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 01:44 pm:

thomas,
Just do what I did (although I do know Larry) and click on his name to send a private message. I can tell you that he lives in Orange county, so he's a ways away from you. I was on a trip down there, so arranged to stop in. Larry's not usually in the "retail trade", he's a supplier to the "usual suspects" vendors.
He's a great guy, and will work with you to get you a tailpipe/exhaust pipe (I had someone tell me the "tailpipe" is the pipe that extends out the rear of the muffler--but what do I know?? OK, I do know that after about '17 there were no pipes extending out the rear of the muffler).

OH, and James, it sure looks like it might be an original, but I'm going by the mandrel bends and how nicely it fits. I've not seen a repro that looks that pretty (OK, am I weird to think a muffler pipe can look pretty???)

We now return you to your regular programming. (or is it de-programming????)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 02:15 pm:

D. Dewey, I have one that came on a '14 T Touring and it has the double bends up front like you are showing. The one I have looks original too. It is the one shown on the bottom of the photo along with another common "repo" that doesn't fit. It can easily be seen that they don't come close. Thanks to Larry for taking on the task of making one that fits!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robbie Price on Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 06:17 pm:

I may have an original 1909 pipe? Should I look for it?
Robbie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 12:41 am:

The original exhaust manifold that came with my 13 is not designed for the flair style pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, December 14, 2015 - 11:49 am:

It is true the early '13s still used the non flared pipe. Mine is a February car, and it still had the non flared pipe. I'm pretty sure the flared pipes were out by March, but that is only a guess.
I don't want my address on the internet, or phone number either, so a private message is the way to go. That is what everybody has done so far. I'm pleased at how they've been selling. I wasn't sure how they would do. I've only got 35 left out of 50 in two weeks! The photo that Vern posted of the early pipe is correct, as is the one Jim Lyons posted. I had my original until the early '70s, but my dad threw it and an original '13 muffler away while I was in the Navy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Z , Candlewood Lake, CT on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 - 08:40 am:

This pipe was on my '26 roadster when I got it. Could it be an original, a new old stock or a good reproduction?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 - 11:47 am:

Bill, AFAIK, there have been no "good reproductions" until now--maybe there were back in the 1950s though. . . . The original NOS pipe Larry showed me had "Ford" script stamped in it at about 18" intervals. Maybe check yours for that?


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