Question regarding the law and no engine ser. number

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Question regarding the law and no engine ser. number
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 09:24 pm:

I just noticed the engine I'm rebuilding has no serial number. The engine is a 26/27 but the frame is a pre 26. An idea what I am going to run into at the state when I want to title this thing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 09:37 pm:

A check of your Kansas DMV webpage notes an Ownership Affidavit that is used to register an antique car. But requirements are VIN number of the motor and bill of sale for that motor, to be used in the application. So appears you need a valid engine number and a bill of sale for that engine. You could pick a number at random and stamp that 12,222 mill to 15,006 mil number on the blank block, but.....who knows, might pick a number that is already registered, but that would really be like hitting the lottery, so many numbers to choose :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:15 pm:

If you are intelligent you will find that the engine has a serial number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:29 pm:

Use Frys reagent

It will bring the an number back after its Ben ground off. It is how the cops recover gun s/n numbers that have been filed off.

http://www.etchantstore.com/Frys-Reagent-250-mL-131.htm


Travis
Topeka, Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:31 pm:

S/n not an
And
Been not Ben


Stupid iPad is out to make me look "special" lol


Travis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:56 pm:

Travis, I saw your car out front. Tree cutters in back. The car looks great. I thought at first the car was out for Christmas décor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 10:56 pm:

Thank you all


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, December 11, 2015 - 11:08 pm:

Buy a title, stamp number to match.

Don't tell anybody. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 02:30 am:

I can remember the engine number on my 20 roadster buckboard, just happens to be the same as my home phone number. I wonder how that happened?

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By samuel pine on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 03:49 am:

Rules of dept. of motor vehicles: do not speak
unless you are spoken to. Keep in mind you are
dealing with dumb an dumber. My case it took
a year for me dealing with these idiots. And they
they don't know a 80 or + yr old car from a
dishwasher. After all that b/s my touring car
registration says 1923 black 4 dr sedan?. Ya know
what, I left and never looked back. So I got a
sedan with no windows and the top goes down, but
somehow its missing one door..??? Then I could not
explain to these brain deads that Fords for years
did not have body serial no.s just motor numbers !
I now guys stamped their phone no and got away
with it..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 04:56 am:

This is a bit, OK, maybe a lot OT, but it concerns serial numbers. A gentleman that owned a construction company that I did a lot of contract welding for back in the '80's told me a story. During the war years(WWII), he bought and sold a lot of farming machinery to help support his Ford dealership. Every so often, a government inspector would come by to check up on things. One day, one came by to check the serial numbers on the tractors that he was getting ready to ship. The inspector asked him to get the serial numbers from them. He went out to the yard, and when he looked for the number on one tractor, it had been ground off. He thought a minute, and then wrote down the tire size. The inspector was satisfied, and off he went. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 07:17 am:

Maybe the engine has a replacement block that never got stamped. Find another scrap engine with a number and get an invoice with that number from the seller. Maybe he's nice and just writes "Model T" and serial number on the invoice. Then check what your state wants to have to give you a title - give them that and nothing more, and you'll likely get a title.
If you can't find a scrap engine with a #, then maybe there is a way the state can supply numbers for cars without them, but I would try to avoid that if at all possible.

Neither of my T's had frame numbers but my country demands frame numbers when the car is registered, so now they have frame numbers. The authorities are happy and I'm happy. They didn't have to know I've put together parts from 50 cars to make two - if I had told them I would have been in much more trouble, have had to produced many more invoices and would have got a special kind of registration that reduces the ways I can use the car much like horseless carriage plates in some US states etc, so it's always best to learn the specific law better than the ones that is supposed to serve you - and then give them just what they want and nothing more.
Good luck :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 09:12 am:

Of note: 1929 Pennsylvania Department of Revenue, Vehicle Code -

Paragraph 97, Registration of a vehicle with defaced, omitted, or obliterated may be titled after a sworn application giving name, address of the purchaser and seller, date of sale, proof not done for concealment, and a request for a special number plate.

Paragraphs 101 to 104, a garage will have a license to transfer engine number, to remove and substitute another engine in a vehicle, the garage will have a license to do so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 12:15 pm:

George,
What happens in Pennsylvania, stays in Pennsylvania. I don't know what the rules are in Kansas, but as Dorothy said, "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!"
Tyrone, you have been given some good advice here. Find an engine block with a number, even a broken one (even better, because it will be cheap!). Now I didn't say the rest of this; Stamp that number onto your block AND frame. You now have matching engine & frame numbers, which will satisfy almost any state motor vehicle department. Do try to use an engine number that matches MOST of the car (mostly the body, hood & radiator), just in case they look up a list of serial numbers by year. Don't try to argue year model, they won't understand, although some states do. . . .(Ford changed year models "around" September--varies by year; ie: my '16 model was made in Dec. 15 & is registered as a '15. I know better, as does anyone familiar with '16s--but it's just legal paper & CA used to list "year model" separately, oh well. . . .).
And DO NOT "explain" how you came about this nice T with matching numbers--that is HOW YOU FOUND IT!! Granted, this does sorta cross the line of illegal behavior, but there is no fraud intended, you are just providing the information required to register a vehicle you honestly own. Do not "volunteer" information unless asked.
Samuel, interesting; when I was registering my '16 touring, the clerk went down the list of available body types, and one was "three door Ford"--guess what mine is registered as??? Why is that still on the books?? Who Knows!!!! But then again Who ain't talkin' (He's busy on first base)! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

What year is the rest of the car going to be? I would find a block that matches that and go from there. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

This is why I only buy T's with current live number plates and registration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 03:33 pm:

I think Mark has the right idea. If the block no. cant be brought back you could find a junk block and use the no. off of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Holland, Utah on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 03:51 pm:

Do you have a title? If you do not; find a bad block and use that # that is on the bad block. I went through Broadway Title, when they were affordable. There are title mills now that are more affordable. I ran into the cop who wanted to see a plate on the body. I bought a reproduction plate from a vendor and bought some HF stamps and stamped it on the plate and affixed it to the dash. That is all he wanted to see. He did not look at the engine # even though it was the same as the plate , that I stamped. Also, I changed the block on my A and used the same stamps to stamp the frame under the floor boards with the title #. And as mentioned above; do not volunteer extra information. Just answerer their question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 06:21 pm:

The block needs a number. Period. Which ever one you decide to stamp. I'm assuming you don't have a title to flip into your name so sometime,somewhere you're going to need to produce a VIN.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 06:51 pm:

Tyrone, I've got a 26 block with a hole in the side from a thrown rod behind my storage shed. I got it with some other T stuff 5-6 years ago and don't have a bill of sale. If you need a number that won't show up on another vehicle somewhere, I could check it and you could stamp it on your block. send me a PM if you're interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 12, 2015 - 10:44 pm:

Noel to the rescue--there's your title number!!!
Ain't this a cool place??


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