Oil tube questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Oil tube questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 12:31 pm:

Martin's mag ring drawing with the oil tube included got me to wondering about a couple of things.


1 Apparently the the small funnel tube was still being used when this engine was made (8-1-22). When was the large funnel introduced?

2 Viewed from the rear like this, the rotation of the flywheel is counterclockwise. It would seem to me that this would throw the oil away from the funnel. Wouldn't it catch more oil if it was on the other side of the engine? Maybe so much oil is flung up onto the hogshead that it fills the funnel anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 01:01 pm:

Oil is being slung in 360 degrees. It hardly matters which side of the engine the funnel is located on.

Seems like it was around 1925 that the bigger funnel began. Whatever the case it surely helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 03:22 pm:

Royce is correct. New larger funnel used for the 1925 model year.

First use of large funnel oil line, July 17, 1924, and all engines after Aug 12, 1924.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 03:25 pm:

And Steve, correct too, the driver side (for USA) of the hogshead gets slung with more oil, as the oil is thrown in that counter clockwise direction.

That was known by the engineer who came up with the larger funnel, that funnel stretches farther to collect that thrown oil spray.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 04:31 pm:

I believe that the oil is mostly slung radially outward. I positioned my auxilliary oil pick up on the passenger side because it is my belief that there is a greater amount of oil slung on that side.

My reason for this conviction is that the flywheel picks up oil at the bottom of it's rotation then commences slinging it as soon as the magnets leave the sump. Oil is continually lost all the time the magnet is above the oil sump. The greatest volume leaves the flywheel as the magnet exits the oil sump. The oil carried by the magnets is depleted with time as the magnet rotates around until it holds the least oil load just before it re-enters the oil sump. So the amount of oil thrown by the flywheel is greatest on the right side of the engine and less on the left side.

That said, there is a lot of oil slung around on both sides. Using a larger funnel will increase the volume of oil captured on either side of the engine. With this in mind I always replace a small funnel with a large one, even if I have an additional external oiler.

IMHO, TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 05:13 pm:

I'm with Terry in regard to mandatory replacement of a small funnel with a large one. I lean towards the Purest Camp, but think that it is complete folly to use a small funnel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 05:43 pm:

Sheldon. Late as usual.

Terry H is right again! When I started reading this thread, I began thinking about how I would say that "flywheel moves oil, oil moves oil, oil moved by oil moves more oil" etc. I like Terry's explanation better.

Because of the direction of the splashing, the larger funnel will catch more oil than the small funnel. That, however, is a double-edged sword. It also is several times more likely to catch lint and debris. Which, in one sense, would be a good thing (generally, getting debris of any kind out of circulation is a good thing). But it also means that lint is more likely to plug the oil line, which is not a good thing. (I once found a small machine screw sitting neatly in the oil line when I took an engine apart.)
I am not convinced which funnel is really best to use. Like a toss of the dice. If I have one? I usually use the big funnel. If I don't have one, I use the smaller one. I have also (only a couple times) soldered wire screen inside the larger funnel to keep lint out of the oil line.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

Has anyone else had problems with the repro large funnel oil lines? I have found two now, broken at the bracket or at the weld where the funnel joins onto the pipe. I'd much rather use an original, and seriously consider using a small funnel original over a large funnel repro.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 07:26 pm:

Yes, I have a rebuilt T engine that has about 250 miles on it that is on a stand in my shop. The funnel broke off while driving on a tour. When the engine quit I was slow to move the key from Mag to Bat. The muffler blew apart and I was driving a T that sounded like a Harley with straight pipes. The brand new mag coil was ruined by the funnel rolling around until it formed a ball that was small enough to be ejected into the bottom of the pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 09:09 pm:

One more Paul and we could start a class action!!!!! Perhaps there are more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 09:17 pm:

Allen,

We should team up with the defective valve caps and pins groups and we would have a case worth about 2.37 dollars!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 09:27 pm:

Those reproduction oil pipes are some times lacking in braze joint, and can become loose. Usually add some more braze to the joint to keep the funnel on the pipe.

And when wiring the bolts to the coil ring, on a recent assembly wrapped the safety wire around the funnel pipe too. Might keep it from walking back out of the front hole. And be sure to re-shape the new funnel to fit flush. Trimming it and bending the bracket is normal to get a better fit.



The original large funnel pipes fit good, and the bracket is better shaped.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 11:39 pm:

All I can say is I have more leaks on the pass side


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:40 am:

Steve, I believe that the 26/27 oil funnel is bigger and longer and will fit older blocks Martins 24 engine had a 26/27 fit well , want more oil give it a try, My 26/27 also Has the Dr Horlick oiler works the best. IMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 12:39 pm:

In addition to the larger funnel, Ford put a cast-in diverter in the top of the trans cover for '25. I assume to direct more oil down--Towards the funnel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:05 pm:

Ken, the '25-'27 diverter is for directing more oil towards the bands and bushings to the rear of the flywheel. Reference Ford's service bulletins for October 1924, side 311 in the printed book version.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Markham on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

Last year my engine setup,didn't know what was wrong took off starter and found a wad of metal so pulled engine and the funnel had broken from pipe and got wound around flywheel strange thing all that work for a five dollar part


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 06:20 pm:

Back in 1994 I had just put a rebuilt engine into my 26 Roadster and soon after starting it, the magneto quit working. I had a magneto plug oiler going from the magneto plug to the front of the engine. Not knowing what had happened to the magneto, I switched to battery and drove the car 10 years that way. I was working on another T at that time and rewound 3 magneto rings. So I decided to pull the engine out of my roadster and see what I could do with the magneto. I found the funnel of the oiler laying on the bottom of the crankcase and the coils were cut. So that car ran for 10 years and on several national or other week long tours during that time. All I had to oil the front of the engine was the original tube without the funnel and the magneto oiler, but the engine survived. I don't know what would have happened if I only had the inside oiler. When I replaced the magneto ring the car changed from being one of the slowest on tour to one of the fastest! Yes they do run better on magneto.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 07:27 pm:

Dan has the right fix, I always re braze the new funnels and tweak them so as not to come in contact with the flywheel as I have seen that happen. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 03:41 am:

Keith, perhaps this thread will save some angst and expense for others down the track. It looks like those repro oil pipes should come with a warning tag. "Please ensure you adequately braze the funnel to the pipe before fitting."

If we are alerted to the shortcomings of repro parts, most of us have the skills to make them work for us, until someone comes up with a quality product. A good example of this is the lined brake shoes we had to spend a deal of time on before Snyders came up with the good ones.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:55 am:

I had a funnel come loose a few years back, and it destroyed my field coil, so check this when you have your engine apart!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Barker - Dayton, OH on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 11:15 am:

I recently heard a rattling sound and found my funnel had come off, got wadded up and was rattling around the bottom in the pan. Found the little ball of crumpled metal after dropping the inspection pan. Fortunately, I have an internal accessory oil tube on the drivers side, and the outside mag post oil line. No magneto to worry about, or to impede oil flow though either of the accessory lines. Next time I have the engine out I'll replace the original tube with a new one, and make sure the funnel is secure.


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