FYI Bad Valve spring caps

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: FYI Bad Valve spring caps
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 05:37 pm:

Just helped a friend replace the Valve spring caps, part # 3056 on his 26 Touring. He did a valve job on it in about 2000 and has about only 1000 maybe 1500 miles on the job. Yes, he does not drive it much. About a year ago he lost a cly on a drive. One of the caps had worn out where the pin holds the valve in. Last night happened again, different valve. Found two more about to let go. Anyone had this happen? I know that if there was a bad batch of caps they are gone by now. Just a heads up for you guys. I will post a picture of the worn out caps when I get a chance. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 06:14 pm:

Hi Dan,

Yes, I had this happen to me. Three of them failed almost simultaneously (or so it seemed) on a 23 mile trip. Tore or punched right through. After removal of all eight it was evident to the naked eye that these spring seats were THINNER than OEM Ford seats. I mean thinner stock, not merely worn thin. Without a Ford part next to it for comparison you likely would not notice the difference. My surmise that they are Aftermarket (ie: SPURIOUS PARTS). These spring seats were in the car when I bought it along with the two piece valves. They likely had been in there for decades, but I really don't know.

I did save them, brought to a monthly club meeting for Show and Tell, and I will look for them to take pictures to post here.

i suppose that the "take away" here would be that we all should carefully check over any parts which we may want to reuse, and not just for condition and wear, but for Quality. I do not routinely replace every 80, or more, year old part but I DO closely inspect things. Be careful out there. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 08:03 pm:

Bill: We replaced these with some NOS ones I had and some from a 16 engine I parted out. There was a difference between these also. The early parts were thicker than the later NOS parts. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leck - Ohio on Thursday, December 17, 2015 - 08:46 pm:

Dan, I encountered the same problem at about 1700 miles on my engine. Luckily I was close enough to home to not be too much of an inconvenience. I just drove it back limping a long. It was the #2 intake valve that I lost and boy what a clatter! Sounded really bad but had just enough power to move the car along in high gear.

Turned out that the cap wore enough to crack, allowing the pin to slip right through. Fortunately the pin was laying right in the galley. I ended up brazing the crack to just get the engine running normal again. I purchased a set of new caps from Snyder's and they look to be a bit thicker than what was used during the last "rebuild". Maybe they were even the originals? I don't know, I didn't own the car when the work was done.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Bill and Dan.

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer---- Klaaswaal NL on Friday, December 18, 2015 - 05:41 am:

Dan H. Yes I had the same .
1040R
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Friday, December 18, 2015 - 11:05 pm:

That is what his did. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 12:50 am:

Is that brass? It looks like an escutcheon from an electric lamp?
Just curious.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Martel in Temperance MI on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 04:49 am:

Same happened to me in the middle of nowhere in the UP of Michigan.

Michele and I drove home with a large cotter pin through the assembly, which failed after about 200 miles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 05:31 am:

Not Brass, steel. They are not as hard as the NOS ones. Dan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 08:55 am:

Is everyone using stock springs when this occurs? Seems that wear would be caused by the cap rocking back and forth as the spring is compressed and relaxed. Most likely a normal process so the caps must not be hardened. Or not hard enough.

That sure gives weight to switching to the split retainer style valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 09:10 am:

What are the ages of the other fails? My friends were installed in about 2000. Like I said he does NOT drive much, has maybe 1500 miles on them. What about the rest of you?

Ken: That is the way I maybe thinking now. I was a stock guy. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 11:55 am:

After you have installed the spring, cap, & pin: you have to turn each spring so the "cap" is exactly 90 degrees to the stem of the valve and also make sure the inside of the spring does not bind against the "post" in the top of the valve gallery that the valve stem comes thru.

If the cap leans slightly, or there is any binding, then the cap will rock on the pin and is more likely to wear prematurely.

This probably occurs more often with repro parts because the SPRING has more tension than the original Ford springs. Ford springs have been reported to have about 28# of pressure while all the repro springs I've seen over the last couple decades are around 36# (in other words they are 30% stiffer than they need to be).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:53 pm:

Hmm, this reminded me that in the Auto Shop at Humboldt State U. there was a spring tension measuring scale; you put a spring in, compressed it a known distance and read the tension. We were required to measure all the valve springs on a rebuild before installing them, and to reject low or high ones. Maybe this isn't done anymore because manufacturing tolerance are held better?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:00 pm:

I'm surprised that this thread has not yet brought out the argument for the use of the slightly larger and more modern valves and related "keepers". I know, I know,.....purists,....just ignore this. But such modern and slightly larger valves (certain ones from Ford & Chev I believe) really are a great way to save a block that would otherwise need expensive machine work to install modern hardened valve seats in a block with Model T valves sunk deep into the block from too many years of "valve jobs". I'm thinking that this thread now presents one more reason the more modern valve parts instead of the inferior "repop" valve keepers, and what guys on this thread are calling "valve spring caps" can be used. I'm really not sure of the correct names for those modern valve spring parts, but they sure are a better design than the little pin, and you can be sure that none of the modern design valve parts will break. Just a thought,.....FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:03 pm:

Well shoot! Just re-read this whole thread and Ken Kopsky was way ahead of me on this,.....and he said it in a lot fewer words! Sorry Ken,.....I should read more carefully before "inserting foot in mouth,.......harold


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