It's a good thing that screw fell out...

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: It's a good thing that screw fell out...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:23 pm:

... because it made me look inside. The first hint that there was more wrong than just a screw falling out was the amount of lining fuzz in the oil screen. I soon found out why.


The reverse drum was the best I could find at the time this was rebuilt, but it wasn't only way out of balance. It was also just too rough.


The brake and low band linings are fine. The reverse isn't.


This makes me wonder if somehow it was riding on the flange at the front edge of the drum.


Meanwhile, there's a magnet saying, "Replace me before I really make a mess of things."

Looks like I'll have enough to keep me busy for awhile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:42 pm:

At least it will keep you off the roof when the snow comes.

Great find, really. Consider the grief that wayward screw has saved you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:58 pm:

Looks to me like there was something rough on the drum edge or something wasn't lined up right.

Was the worn and shredded lining on the reverse drum flange side or was it on the other side next to the low speed drum.

The first pic seems to show some rough spots right next to the flange. Maybe that's it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 02:59 pm:

Wow, you really dodged a bullet catching that broken magnet before it got loose! Glad you caught it in time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:07 pm:

Steve,

Glad you caught it earlier rather than later.

What type of lining is shown?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:11 pm:

Nice "catch" on the magnet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:44 pm:

I think that reverse drum came from a transmission that had probably sat for years with water in the bottom of the pan. That rusted away enough cast iron to put the drum out of balance, and left rust pits in the drum surface. Sandblasting takes away the rust, but it doesn't cure the pits. The chewed up part of the lining was toward the front of the drum. The flange isn't as rough as the drum surface, but apparently it's rough enough to give that Kevlar band a good chewing. I've acquired a few transmissions in the last couple of years, so I'm going to dig into my stash and see if I can find a much better reverse drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 03:47 pm:

Yikes-a-Mighty! I felt so badly for you having to pull the engine again. I know you went through it not very long ago. But now, I don't feel so bad for you. Congratulations on dodging the bullet.
Reminds me of the time I pulled the engine out of my first boat-tail over twenty years ago. It was running really nice, but needed some attention. When I lifted the engine at a steep angle, one of the triple-gear pins fell out.
I think I did a little dance when it dawned upon me the disaster I had avoided.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 04:35 pm:

Sooooo where did the screw dislodge from?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 04:39 pm:


Fuzz, free to a good home. You pay shipping.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 04:47 pm:

Scott, I haven't dug in that far yet, but it could only have been one of the three screws holding this balance weight. That will go bye-bye along with the drum.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 05:17 pm:

I'm sorry to read about your trouble.Do you use a trans screen? Some here would consider it a foolish sin to use one of those acc hogshead high volume oilers on a aul hogshead but i did? Good luck! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 07:30 pm:

Hey Steve, can you post a picture of the shaft setup that you used to balance your drums? I'm at that stage in my transmission rebuild right now and need some ideas. I'm talking to a machinist about making two cones for me to slip over a 3/4 shaft, with Allen set screws, to roll over the knife set that I just made up. If you found an easier way, I'd love to see it. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 09:13 pm:

It's good that you were able to catch that before it really did some damage! Wasn't there something said about the Kevlar bands putting out some lint right after installation? What do you think about installing a flywheel with ring gear in case you ever want to add a starter?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 09:57 pm:

Dave Young,

Until Steve replies try these for ideas:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/595424.html?1450466655

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880 /408629.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/408594.html?13 87319755&h=700&w=388&tbnid=PUhsrr2SHM3xuM:&docid=4NXtiySqQ9NrJM&ei=khh2VoqHKoGja 7LYmNgG&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiKmNGDuOnJAhWB0RoKHTIsBmsQMwg-KBcwFw


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Saturday, December 19, 2015 - 10:10 pm:

I wonder if the screw got caught on the top of the reverse lining which added to the damage?
So glad you found the broken magnet, I have fixed one where the magnet let loose, what a horrid mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 12:06 am:

Steve,
While you are in there why not put in a flywheel with a ring gear? God forbid you may someday get old, but there may come a day when you can no longer wind up your beloved roadster. At that point installing a starter involves only changing to a hogshead with a starter and putting in a battery box, as opposed to a complete tear down and rework. In the meantime, no one can see the ring gear and be offended by its non-originality. I don't build T engines without ring gears. There are at least twenty brass era T engines I have built, three of them open valve cars, that are running around with hidden ring gears so that owners may continue to enjoy them when the crank is no longer an option. Any time in the future the original hogshead can be replaced and the blasphemy concealed until the next owner cannot crank it. Something to think about. If you need a flywheel, I will give you one for shipping charges.
Merry Christmas. Can I still say that?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 12:29 am:

Check the oil lines too Steve.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 12:35 am:

Dave Young, if you have your machinist make your cones with a shallow taper, there is no need for the Allen screws. Mine are a neat fit on the shaft, and all I have to do is slide the cones into place and they stay there.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 12:54 am:

Dave, the drums were balanced at Mike Bender's. He has mandrels to fit all the drums. If you have access to a lathe, they should be pretty easy to make.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 10:43 am:

It looks like the reverse drum is smooth enough, but the reverse band is riding up on the flange. Probably because a lot of the flange is rotted away!

Those magnets each need to be banged against a piece of metal, such as an anvil, to see if they fracture before re - using them. You will find that you get one or two that fall apart from every set.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 11:52 am:

here is the aftermath of a broken magnet, this was running at a fast idle not on the road.
every magnet was broken, all the screws were torn out ,the bolts were bent, the mag post was torn off and the hogshead had a large piece punched out.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 12:29 pm:

Ouch! I'll be sure to check all the magnets carefully. I have a bunch of extras in case I need to replace more than one.


Royce, I suspected the same thing, that the band was riding on the bad flange. That may be why backing up "sounded funny". Whatever replacement drum I use will have a smooth surface and a complete, smooth flange. The trick will be finding one without any cracks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 06:48 pm:

Rick, "lucky" it went through the hogshead instead of the pan! Replacements are easy to find. With that much damage I would check everything for straight... crankshaft, ouput shaft, PAN, etc.!

Steve, Good time to recharge the magnets, eh?

Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 09:25 pm:

Terry, it was sitting in the driveway, the pan had two places that were punched out, it now has a scat crank and fresh babbit as a precaution.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, December 20, 2015 - 09:50 pm:

Well, I found that the balance weight was still in the reverse drum.




But only one screw was holding it. One came out of the pan with the old oil, but I have no idea what became of the third one. So far I haven't seen it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:10 am:

Steve, was that big chunk out of the reverse drum flange when the transmission was assembled, or did one of the screws knock off that chunk?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:20 am:

Yeah, on end that drum looks like hell. Hindsight is 20/20.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:33 am:

Steve, if you don't have a better drum, here is a link to an older classified ad, maybe the gentleman still has a good reverse drum:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/3487/559230.html?1438836663


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:36 am:

Here in Texas we have a saying when something looks that bad.

Es no Bueno por caca!

I would not consider using a drum that looked that bad, balanced or not. It's a heck of a lot of work removing and rebuilding a transmission. Use good stuff, then you can enjoy it for the rest of the time you are the caretaker of that fine automobile.


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