Another Model TT Question:

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Another Model TT Question:
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyd Raifsnider on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 11:27 am:

1924/1925/1926 years: What were the choices for the front wooden rims? back wooden rims? Front tire sizes? rear tire sizes? Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 02:53 pm:

Not to be nit-picky, just to be clear.
"Rims' were never made of wood. "Wheels" were wooden spoke on most cars and trucks throughout 1900 until about 1929. SOME wheels were "demountable", in that a "rim" was removable from the wheel with an inflated tire mounted on it. That way, a ready-to-use spare could be carried and changed on the side of the road without needing to actually repair the tire on site. SOME wheels were "non-demountable". No removable rim, meant that the tire needed to be removed from the wheel's rim on the spot and repaired in order to fix a flat.
Some wheels, especially trucks, even had solid rubber tires that could not go flat and need repair (unless they broke).
TT trucks were available from the beginning (about 1918 through 1927 with wood felloed non demountable clincher rims and tires on the front. For a few of those years, front wheels could be had with steel felloed non-demountable clincher rims and tires.
From about 1921 through 1927, demountable clincher rims were also available on the front wheels (30X3.5 size).
In 1925 through 1927, an additional option was the newer style "balloon" type straight-side tires in a 21 inch size. These were always demountable type rims. These appear to be the most common on model TT trucks.
Wire wheels were also offered on cars for 1926 and '27. While not really offered on TT trucks, a few have been outfitted with them. In that case, since the entire wheel is removable from the wheel hub. It may correctly be called either the "wheel", or the "rim".

TT Truck rear wheels are different than the front wheels. 1918 started with solid tires, available for several years as an option. Some time later, demountable pneumatic 23 inch heavy duty wheels and tires were used on most trucks. In the mid-'20s, through 1927, a heavy duty 20 inch demountable wheel and rim was most popular on the rear of the TT truck.
Welcome, and good luck!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyd Raifsnider on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 03:08 pm:

Wayne-Thank you so much! Sorry for my questions-Brand new to the Ford Model TT truck family.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 03:41 pm:

Wayne, help me clarify? Looking first hand, Dad's '26 TT is a 'one-ton' and has 20" (called "30X5"?) 2-piece clinchers (with worm-drive Ruckstell) in back. Since he purchased the truck in 1942, I don't suspect there were changes from 'original'...?
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 03:57 pm:

Two-piece clinchers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

Mary,

There were a couple of rim choices in 20" size. I don't think either choice was a clincher. Can you post a picture? A close-up of the wheel would be best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:03 pm:

Within my '10 pounds in a 5 pound bag' shop, I was able to get a few pictures. I had to literally cut off the old tire to get at the rim and clincher, but did keep the 'cut-off' for future reference. The new tires were able to be purchased through Ray's Tire in Green Bay. Hope this helps someone.
Marv

1/The entire assembly; 2/Rim & Clincher; 3/From the opposite side; 4/Showing the 5" depth; 5/New 600X20 mounted; 6/The 'original' tire; 7/It says "30X5 Good Year"; 8/The Worm Drive Ruckstell









Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:12 pm:

-Hi, Steve-
As you can see, they are 'clincher rims'. Is that unusual for a true Factory TT one-ton stake bed? Just wondering.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:16 pm:

Marv, they are actually 20" Firestone split ring rims.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:22 pm:

Thanks, Justin.
They sure resemble the 'clinchers' I had put onto a Semi's wheel years ago. Where does the 'Firestone' nomenclature come from? Was Firestone a supplier to Ford at that time?
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:23 pm:

To clarify a little more, the following were the pneumatic rear wheels offered:

23" Hayes - Split rim demountable
23" Kelsey - Split rim demoutable
20" Firestone - Split ring demountable

I don't believe that there were any other 20" offerings.

(Message edited by JunkyJud on December 21, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Palmisano on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:42 pm:

Marv,
Firestone was a supplier to Ford at the time. Somewhere on your lock ring you should find "FIRESTONE" stamped. Do your old Goodyear tires have "AIRPLANE" molded into the sidewall?Firestone lock ring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 06:46 pm:

OK Marv, you're getting some terms confused. Your back rims are not clinchers, they are, as Justin said, 20" split ring rims. Other terms for them are flat base or lock ring rims. What you're calling a clincher is a lock, or split ring. A clincher rim is a totally different animal. It has curved sides where the tire beads fit, and the tires have curved beads that fit in the rim sides, The rim sides "clinch" the bead. They aren't split, the tire has to be stretched over the rim to mount it, much like a bicycle tire. Hope I haven't gotten you completely confused! If you do a search on clincher rims, you'll find all kinds of information. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 07:43 pm:

Tom,
I'll be darned. Our TT has been in the family for almost 70 years. I never examined the lock rings for marks. They're stamped just like the one in you photo. And I thought I'd found everything on that ol' truck. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 07:59 pm:

-Hi, Tom-
No evidence of 'Airplane' on the old tire. It does say "All Weather" with inflation rates of "65 pounds for passenger cars or 80 pounds for trucks." They were 10-ply tires. Those tires must have also been used on some very heavy cars???? Hope this helps.
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Palmisano on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 08:18 pm:

Marv,
Thanks. The reason I asked is because I have a pair of new old stock tires that look the same but have "AIRPLANE" molded into the sidewall.
Henry,
There was also some more symbols stamped about an inch after that stamping, one resembled a club(playing card). If there is any interest, I am willing to post a picture of that.
Goodyear AIRPLANE tire


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 09:04 pm:

Tom,
I also have a set of NOS Good Year tires but I don't know just how old they are. The bead on them looks fairly different from yours. The bead on mine were actually shaped to fit right into the rim edges where yours looks like they have a raised rib. I wonder if there was a difference in car and truck tires?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Palmisano on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 09:39 pm:

Justin,
That's a good looking tire. There where differences in car and truck tires in the early days (load rating, tread design). My tires are airplane tires, and they are from 1943. The reason I asked Marv about his, was because of the similarity of the tread design. I have attached a better picture of the bead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Palmisano on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 09:40 pm:

Forgot to add picture.Goodyear airplane tire bead


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:02 pm:

Here's a little more illustration on types of tires.


Clincher tires have a fat bead like this.


Clincher rims have curved edges like this to clinch that bead on the tire. High pressure 60-65 pounds) keeps them clinched.

The rims with a separate ring are called split ring, lock ring, or snap ring. These are the ones that want to kill you or exit through the roof of your shop. They're usually assembled with chain wrapped around them or inside a steel cage to keep them in check. They're often mistakenly called split rims, which they are not. That's something else.


Here's a TT wheel with a snap ring. You can see the split in the ring between 10 and 11 o'clock.


Here's a split rim.It's called that because it's split all the way across the rim so it will collapse inward to make for easy tire installation or removal.


Split rims are assembled with a jack and wooden blocks, or with a tool like this, called a split rim spreader.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, December 21, 2015 - 10:30 pm:

Tom, thanks for the information. I thought that the "Airplane" was a model name for the tire and really didn't think they were actual airplane tires. Those things were really kept well; they look like new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 01:49 am:

Marv K, Looks like a lot of people beat me back and pretty well answered your question.
The key difference between "straight-side" (a nearly forgotten term that used to be common) and "clincher" (actually clinch under the edge of the rim) is that straight-side tires generally have a steel wire (or several) inside a tight fitting bead to help center and hold the tire on tight. They cannot be stretched over the sides of a rim, short of either a "drop center", or so much force applied that something will break, (been there, saw the tire shop guy do that).
Some clinchers do have a wire or cotton strengthener inside the bead, but are still loose fitting. They are intended to stretch somewhat to pull over the sides of the rim. Because the tire is intended to fit somewhat loose, without the clincher bead, even a fully inflated clincher tire would work off the rim if driven hard on a warm day. It must "clinch" under the rim to remain centered and tight on the rim.
In earlier years (1912 and before) there were actually some multi-part clincher rims that had an outer clincher that slipped off the main rim. They were held together by a variety of Rube Goldberg locking mechanisms. Some of these rims were designed to accept either clincher or straight-side tires by simply flipping both the inner and outer rings around. This is a good thing for some owners of antique automobiles now, as clincher type tires are not available in all the larger early sizes.
Drive carefully, and enjoy the holidays! W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 01:51 am:

Thanks for the useful information! Guess I lurnt sumthin new tooday!!!!
Marv


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 03:36 am:

The question seems to have been well answered, however I would like to add a couple of observations.

Here in Oz, young people have a tendency to refer to a 'wheel' as a 'rim', on modern cars, which I don't understand. I imagine the same thing happens in other English speaking countries. It seems that the construction of wheels, which had a hub, spokes, felloe and rim has never been understood by them so the whole thing becomes a 'rim'.

In U.K., Oz and N.Z. the tyre design known in the USA as 'Clincher' is called 'Beaded Edge'.

I think that the confusion between Split Ring and Split Rim is because of the similarity in the sound of the words.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 10:44 am:

Dane,
You post brings to mind a well know Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw or Oscar Wilde quote. Each of them has been credited with it and it could be all of them said it. They were referring to Americans and British folks, but his comment applies here too. We are "two nations divided by a common language". :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 05:45 pm:

Yep Dane, same thing here. It drives me nuts when they say that. Dave


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