Slight change in NH lawqq

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Slight change in NH lawqq
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 06:07 pm:

I got my my NH registration renewal today and it included a notice that the Antique plate on my 1919 model T is not valid for use in commerce .

It says that an antique vehicle is any motor vehicle including a truck regardless of its weight, over 25 years old which is maintained for use in exhibitions, club activities, parades and other functions of public interest but not commercial use --maintained for use shall mean a motor vehicle in its original condition or restored to original or better condition and not intended for daily use.

Getting ice cream with my granddaughters or coffee with my wife has to be a function of public interest because we use them as opportunities to tell people about the model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 06:33 pm:

WA laws are similar. I am always test driving my car, at least that is what I plan to tell the cop if I ever get pulled over. My daily driver T is licensed regular, but sometimes I drive one of my other T's to work, which probably isn't strictly legal. I've been told that you can get a ticket if you drive your special plated car to the hardware store and park it in the parking lot (unless it is a car show or the club is meeting there, or something like that). I think the concept of requiring licenses on all of your cars is silly. The person should be licensed, not the car. I have probably 5 rigs of one sort or another in addition to my T's that all are licensed. I have never driven more than one car at a time, however. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gilbert V. I. Fitzhugh on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 06:35 pm:

If I ever get hauled into court for driving one of my toys other than "in the public interest", I'll offer the judge a ride in the car on a nice day so he can witness the interest of the public. "Anywhere I park is a car show, and anywhere I drive is a parade."

That said, I always honk and wave at cops, and they almost always grin and wave back, and sometimes give me a tiny toot of the siren, just for fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:02 pm:

I think if they pull me over and tell me I can't drive my car we will have a discussion about where the sun doesn't shine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James L. Bodkin - Jim on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:14 pm:

Mass. DMV laws also restrict vehicles displaying "antique" or "yom" plates to parades, club functions, test drives etc. A fellow model A member was recently stopped for driving his "A" to dinner with his wife. Although he could have claimed he was going to a club function, he chose to tell the officer he was simply going to dinners with his wife. The officer showed him the statute which he conveniently had in his cruiser. The driver was given a warning. During 'the season' I drive my "T" 5 or 6 days a week for local errands. I have not been stopped, possibly because I have "standard" plates. I was considering yom plates, but now not so much.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:16 pm:

When I registered my TT for the first time in about 65 years I looked into Horseless Carriage plates. I decided that there are too many restrictions. I ended up registering it as a "commercial" truck, the same as if it were a modern pick-up. I can use it any time and haul whatever I want. I know there are less costly ways to go, but heck, it's worth the $102.00 per year to not worry about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:17 pm:

Folks get worked up over nothing.

Specialized plates such as antique car or collector vehicle plates are typically for restricted use. The usual trade off is you pay less for the registration compared to regular passenger vehicle registration.

For the privilege of having antique vehicle plates on your car in NH, (which I presume are cheaper than regular plates), you can't use it for daily use (such as commuting to and from work) or for commercial purposes.

That is very fair and reasonable.

Don't fret. Occasional trips in your antique car are neither "daily use" nor "commercial use."

If you want to use your antique car as a daily driver, then get regular plates for it, just like your modern car. Your insurance company will then make you get regular car insurance which is more expensive than collector car insurance.

I grew up around antique cars. I have never heard of an epidemic of antique cars being pulled over due to the abuse of the license plate registration laws.

However, in my opinion, the real problem is people who abuse the privilege and put collector plates on modern cars and then use them as every day drivers. For example, putting New Hampshire antique car plates on a 1990 Ford (which would be allowed since it is at least 25 years old) and then using the car as a daily driver. That's being a scofflaw and it isn't fair to other car owners. It also puts specialized plate registrations at risk - too much abuse and specialized plates could go away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:18 pm:

Dennis, I agree, but the trouble is, if you do that then they may just put you where the sun DOESN"T shine!! Like Tom, I have one T and the A with "regular" plates, the other 3 T's have the Historical plates but I display the YOM on two of 'em. So far no problems as I drive the historical tagged car a LOT. Funny thing, I see "modern" classics all over the place at shopping centers displaying the historical tags too and apparently nobody seems to bother. Hope it stays that way!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:30 pm:

Erik,

My TT, with regular commercial plates, has antique auto insurance, no problem. The insurance company has all the information and they charge me about $90.00 a year. It's covered for liability (of course) and collision in an amount more than it's worth. I think the big factor is low miles traveled per year. I don't think they care what plate is on it.

Just my experience.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:33 pm:

It's not just the registration that may have restrictions. Better read your insurance policy. It may have the same or similar restrictions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James L. Bodkin - Jim on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 07:43 pm:

Erik, in Mass., antique or yom plates are considered "vanity" plates and have a higher yearly renewal fee than standard plates! You have to LOVE MASS!!
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kurt Baltrusch on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 08:25 pm:

Montana is pretty unique. We have the standard restricted use plates, pioneer ( I think to 1931) and classic for later. Some years ago we were stopped in my T taking wife and kids for ice cream on Mother's Day. The cop stated that the reason was that others were abusing the law ( so why not get them?). I just got a warning otherwise I would have fought it. Anyway in Montana you can get permanent plates on any car over ten years old for a one time fee, and that works better for some of us. By the way, motorcycles, trailers and some RVs in MT are licensed permanently each time they are purchased, so if you buy one of those, you only license and pay for it once.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 08:41 pm:

They have the same laws in California. Two of my T's have the regular plates and the other has "Horseless Carriage" I have never been stopped in any of my T's since I have been driving them for over 25 years. I don't know why it should be a problem because they all have to be renewed each year.

There are at least 3 reasons for licensing cars. One is to collect taxes. One is to be able to identify the car and owner in case of accident or infraction they can trace it by the plate number. One is to keep a record of the VIN number in case the car is stolen.

Most of the antique auto insurance policies are also restricted in the number of miles which can be driven per year or type of use, however it is possible to get regular insurance for daily drivers.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 10:24 pm:

The only time I've ever been stopped for a YOM plate was when I was driving a 1968 beetle with its 1968 plate. The highway patrol officer was on his radio for about twenty minutes while somebody explained the law to him, and that was the end of that. Since then I've always carried a copy of the law in the car, with the pertinent part highlighted in yellow. Antique registration here is $17 a year, whether you use the antique plates or YOM.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 10:27 pm:

Tom, I agree with your logic, but the revenuers in our state want every car registered for the MONEY.

Your idea would only generate a singular source of revenue, and what elected official would settle for 1 source when they get 1000's of sources by requiring registration of all motor vehicles..

It's simply a matter of economics, as this money comes in the form of fee's, there is no way to petition a repeal or reduction of this incredible revenue source.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 10:37 pm:

I thought the NH referred to the Holley......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, December 22, 2015 - 10:53 pm:

And YOM plates are also considered "vanity" plates and cost $25 more each year to have than regular plates. AFAIK, there is not restriction on them, but I haven't checked into it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 08:07 am:

"the Antique plate on my 1919 model T is not valid for use in commerce"

Were you planning to get a job delivering pizza part time in your Model T? This would not be any kind of restriction on the way I use any of my Model T's. Commerce means operating the vehicle to make money.

Apparently New Hampshire allows you to do virtually anything else that you want to do while having those plates on your car. I fail to see a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 08:53 am:

Tony. You have it backwards.

The NH carb is an uncomplicated device that works well.
It was named after the group of hard working people from New Hampshire who are willing to fight for freedom and individual rights.
We don't complain during black fly season, cold weather, or a bit of snow.
We believe in personal responsibility, speak the truth, and get the job done!


But all is not well -

Our southern border towns are under attack from people that say they want our freedom and lifestyle but as soon as they move to the state they try to change us to their way of thinking and want us to increase the taxes.
The folks to the west are strange. They don't want to be a part of the U.S.and wear Berkinstocks even in the winter.
Our neighbors to the north will not speak English.
The guys to the northeast are somewhat like us except they talk funny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 08:56 am:

Royce.

I agree. It will make no difference to 99% of the people with antique cars. It is too bad that some people take advantage of the situation and force these kinds of changes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 09:21 am:

The relevant sections of Missouri law are RSMo 301.131, articles 4 and 5. Both were written by state legislators who were also old car people. (I have added the italics for the key mileage provisions.)

"4. Historic vehicles may be driven to and from repair facilities one hundred miles from the vehicle's location, and in addition may be driven up to one thousand miles per year for personal use. The owner of the historic vehicle shall be responsible for keeping a log of the miles driven for personal use each calendar year. Such log must be kept in the historic vehicle when the vehicle is driven on any state road. The historic vehicle's mileage driven in an antique auto tour or event and mileage driven to and from such a tour or event shall not be considered mileage driven for the purpose of the mileage limitations in this section. Violation of this section shall be punishable under section 301.440 and in addition to any other penalties prescribed by law, upon plea or finding of guilt thereof, the director of revenue shall revoke the historic motor vehicle license plates of such violator which were issued pursuant to this section.

5. Notwithstanding any provisions of this section to the contrary, any person possessing a license plate issued by the state of Missouri that is over twenty-five years old, in which the year of the issuance of such plate is consistent with the year of the manufacture of the vehicle, the owner of the vehicle may register such plate as an historic vehicle plate as set forth in subsections 1 and 2 of this section, provided that the configuration of letters, numbers or combination of letters and numbers of such plate are not identical to the configuration of letters, numbers or combination of letters and numbers of any plates already issued to an owner by the director. Such license plate shall not be required to possess the characteristic features of reflective material and common color scheme and design as prescribed in section 301.130. The owner of the historic vehicle registered pursuant to this subsection shall keep the certificate of registration in the vehicle at all times. The certificate of registration shall be prima facie evidence that the vehicle has been properly registered with the director and that all fees have been paid."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 09:29 am:

Tom C. I agree with your view about licensing the person and not the vehicle but would also like to see them "Insure" the person and not the vehicle, Imagine how much simpler it would be if if you could buy a policy to cover you for say 60,000 miles a year whether you were driving a corvette or your motor home instead of having a different policy for each vehicle you own. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 09:38 am:

Fred,

If you don't like the antique plates then spend the extra $$$ on regular plates every year. The antique plates are cheaper because you promise not to do certain things so you can save money.

If you want to use your TT to deliver firewood then you need commercial plates and commercial insurance because that is the law. It is a fair use concept - pay for what you plan to do.

Again I fail to see any problem - license plates are a tax on usage. You get what you pay for. Insurance works the same way - you buy insurance based on what you are going to use the car for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 09:47 am:

What we have to worry about are the fringe people. A couple of years ago I was at a car show and sitting next to my stock '46 Plymouth was a T-Bucket all snazzy and new and sporting Horseless Carriage plates, His problem was at the same car show was the FHP with their restored '36 Ford. When the State Trooper saw the HC plates on the T-Bucket he asked the guy for his registration then He wrote the man a ticket and confiscated the plates and registration and told him he could not drive it on public roads until he either got "Street Rod" or regular plates for the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 10:20 am:

In Missouri, historic vehicles are also exempt from inspection. Registering a high-powered, home-made street rod as a historic vehicle also entails a safety problem. There is a Street Rod plate available, but I will bet that a majority of street rods are registered as Model Ts with historic plates. (How many times have there been posts here about a "Model T" involved in an accident where it turned out to be a T-bucket?)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 10:44 am:

Fred, I used to live in NH and I do recall a guy that liked to drive his car 2 miles on Sunday morning to pick up the paper. He only did it once in a while to get the battery charged, etc.

He also got a ticket one Sunday for driving the car on the road when he was not going to a club event.

The fine was only around $25 to $50 about 20 years ago or so. It is probably more now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 10:56 am:

It's an attempt to further restrict the use of the vehicle. Period. We've discussed this exact topic here before. How someday that's exactly what it will be: Club functions & Parades end of story. Apparently that's exactly the way it now is in NH. The wording on Fred's registration is lawyer-speak for what happened to James's friend 20 years ago. Now it's totally legal to ticket you in NH if your driving and not involved in a "function".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 11:09 am:

This is from the California DMV website form for special plates:

Historical Vehicle License Plates
I certify that I understand these plates may only be placed on a motor vehicle manufactured after 1922, which is at least 25 years old and is of historic interest. I also certify that I understand that the vehicle for which these plates are issued is primarily driven in historical exhibitions, parades, or historic club activities. SIGNATURE DATE
X
Horseless Carriage License Plates
I certify that I understand these plates may only be placed on a motor vehicle manufactured in 1922 or prior, or manufactured with 16 or more cylinders before 1965. I also certify that I understand that the vehicle for which these plates are issued is primarily driven in historical exhibitions, parades, or historic club activities. SIGNATURE DATE
X

I never realized there are both "Historical Vehicle" and "Horseless Carriage" plates that are different.

What do you suppose the "16 or more cylinders before 1965" Horseless Carriage provision is intended to cover?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 11:29 am:

The V-16 before 1965 would be some cars from Cadillac, Marmon, Peerless, and racers by Maserati, Cord, Alfa-Romeo, and others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ALAN FAIRCLOUGH on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 11:33 am:

I just hope we don't get arrested for driving topless...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:03 pm:

OK Steve. I can accept easily that there were pre-1965 V-16's produced. What gives them "Horseless Carriage" status? Heck, a big ol' 1930's V-16 is anything but what I view as a Horseless Carriage. Historical Vehicle maybe, but.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:28 pm:

An astute lobbyist that owned one? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:29 pm:

I cannot account for anything done by a legislature. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Kemmerer Medford, Or on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:36 pm:

Oregon has pretty much the same restrictions, but here they are called historic vehicle plates. I have never been pulled over for driving mine not in club functions. The only person I know who has was a fellow club member who was towing his boat to the lake with his antique car. guess that's a no no


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:37 pm:

Henry, I think that the key word in the California rules you posted is "primarily."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 12:41 pm:

Steve, the function of a Legislature is to make life illegal, one statute at a time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 06:39 pm:

This is perhaps the best explanation of what is actually going on.Some people get it others totally dismiss it.With a little bit of research and a little bit homework you can actually find out how much your birth certificate is trading for on the stock exchange today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7K6P7hlko

N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 07:00 pm:

Royce,

I don't get it.
I said that I agreed with you.
All that NH (the state) did was stop people from using antique plates for vehicles used for commercial applications.

I have antique car plates on my T and they will be on my wife's Model A when we finish it. Neither are used everyday but we do take the T to the grocery store, Dunkin Donuts, or the hardware store a couple times a month.


James
I bet he could have beaten that ticket. He probably did something to annoy the cop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 09:48 am:

In Alabama, the YOM and Antique plates are a one time fee. However, you can only drive to car shows and parades. Test drives are not allowed. So, for a little over $20.00 per year I get a regular plate. I can drive wherever I want, park anywhere and no problem. Several here get the YOM or Antique plate and haven't been bothered, but with my luck (if it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any at all) I don't take the chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willard Revaz on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 11:29 am:

CT is really screwed up, but in a good way for Antique Plates. They cost the same as regular passenger plates and apply to any vehicle 20 years or older which can be used as commercial or daily drivers. (What?). YOM doesn't cost a cent, but must accompany the regular antique registration. Go figure. They have recently changed Early American to Antique Vehicle, (to accommodate VWs and MGBs), but it still puts my 100 year old cars in the same category as a 1995 pickup. I would like to see Historical, Vintage, Street Rod, and Just an Old Car as more definitive categories, but that has to go thru the Legislative process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Holland, Utah on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 11:29 am:

Like Steve; I to carry the Utah code exert on vintage plates in the car. Haven't had to use it, but I just know some do gooder newbie cop will pull me over to make a point. The people who abuse the system are the glass hotrods. They are the ones that need to have regular plates.


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