**1921-1924?? Exhaust-Muffler Canadian**

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: **1921-1924?? Exhaust-Muffler Canadian**
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 03:56 pm:

Thanks to John Page who sent me a whole slew of great pictures and Ford Service Bulletin excerpts for the Canadian Muffler.

This muffler assembly fits onto exhaust pipe 4037B (I think that's the right number) the same way as does the American muffler onto 4037C. The major difference between these two muffler assemblies is the exhaust exit on the muffler points down and that the front plate of the muffler is held in place by a cotter pin and not the electric upset bulge that's on 4037C.
You'll notice there is a slight half circle notch in the bottom of the collar on the front plate (it's all you would see in this projection) 4026B that rest against cotter pin 4035. I suppose that's to keep the front plate from spinning or vibrating over much on the pin. Now it was mentioned that it isn't a cotter pin but some straight pin of some sort. The Service Bulletin itself it calls the pin a "cotter key" and it shows some sort of bent looking pin...but the photos that John sent to me all the mufflers had a cotter pin where this "cotter key" is supposed to be. Now it could be that somebody changed the original pin out in favor of a cotter pin, I don't know, but on all three pictures of the muffler under Canadian cars they were all cotter pins.



Like I said above, I'm not real sure of is the part number of the pipe itself...I've called it 4037B, because it was on the same parts diagram as the part for 4037C. But I'm not sure that is indeed the number for this pipe...it looks right. The Canadian pipe is more straight looking than the American pipe is, but like I said I'm not sure. So, if anybody has the correct number for this pipe, please let me know so I can add it to the assembly. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 04:28 pm:

The overseas edition 1920/23 shows both pipes but only lists the 4037C in part # listing and fitting both L&R T's, any help?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 04:43 pm:

I found the 4037B, that pipe stopped in 1920
The 4037C went from 1920 to end of production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:01 pm:

My 1926 Fordor had this type exhaust/muffler setup before restoration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:09 pm:

Nice work Martin. The only thing I can find that probably could be changed a little is the deflector. In your drawing the corner of the deflector appears to be a little too square. They were more rounded. Now you have the drawing almost sorted , I will post the Canadian Service Bulletin for 1921.
Best regards, John



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:11 pm:

Excellent drawing again Martin. I checked on the muffler shown in the previous post and found that the split pin notch in the front end plate was consistent with the pin being about 1/4". Perhaps your drawing should show this as being a little more substantial.

Interestingly, the hole in the pipe for the pin is drilled at about 2 o'clock when viewed from the rear and aligned with the mounting bracket. Further, it is not aligned with the punched holes for the retaining bolt at the end of the pipe, indicating that it may have been randomly drilled.
Perhaps this was done on straight stock before the pipes were bent.

By the way, when those exhaust pipes were delivered to Australia, the cotter key became a split pin. What do you fellows call the pin which locks the pedal arm to the centre shaft on a bicycle? That pin, with its tapered flat side and nut to tighten it, is what we call a cotter pin.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:11 pm:

Here are more detailed pictures of the deflector. J.P.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:20 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:20 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 05:26 pm:

Front Muffler Head No. 4026B


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 06:09 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 08:01 pm:

Those assembly instructions also advise peening over the bolt over the nut on the rear plate to keep if from working loose. I've noticed that some of these mufflers look like they had an acorn nut on the back, but I suppose it's just a very rusted peened over bolt and nut.

John, hmmm, yes I see it's a bit more rounded looking, also a little less apron looking too...ok I'll make that change.



That sure looks like a cotter pin, but then it might have been changed out for what was originally there...does anybody have a picture of what the "cotter key" looks like?

Frank, the problem is, that 4037C has the electric upset bulge instead of a hole for the cotter key (whatever that is). This pipe would've been a clean pipe, with no bulge and just a hole, probably randomly drilled as suggested by Allen. I suppose that Ford could've shipped 4037C as a clean pipe without the upset, leaving whomever assembled the muffler to the pipe to their own devices. Which would've accounted for something as simple as that pin...except there is a Ford Service Bulletin dealing with just this pipe alone, which to would indicate that this is a Ford design and therefore there should be some part number associated with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 08:09 pm:

Hmmm, maybe since the pipe is a revision, the number for it would also bear a revision letter, say, like "D", that comes after "C". Has anybody seen anything about a number like 4037D?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 09:26 pm:

I would have been a lot cheaper for me do them like those Canadians!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 - 10:12 pm:

Martin,

Is it a Coke, a cola, a soda, a pop....

My Dad often called them cotter keys. And if you look at the Sears Craftsman tool at: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cotter-key-extractor/p-00904319000P it is called a Cotter Key Extractor. And in the description it reads, “Working with cotter pins doesn't have to be a major hassle with this handy Craftsman cotter key extractor from Sears in your tool kit. No matter what type of cotter pin you're dealing with, this tool is specially designed to help provide the leverage needed to get it out with ease.”

MATCO also sells a Cotter Key Extractor at http://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/CKTG1MB/cotter-key-pullers/ and uses similar language of how it is used to pull cotter pins.

Note in Ford’s Price List of Parts the USA versions use cotter pin about 99% of the time. They did list a Cotter Key for the 1912 Muffler Bracket Bolt.

And then it seems like some of the pins/keys have a rounded head while others are flat on one side and rounded on the other side. I don’t know if that does or does not make any difference in what it is called. But for most of the applications I’ve used them for -- a split pin, cotter pin, cotter key all look more professional than a bent over nail. But the nail is often more readily available…...

And thank you so much for you detailed exploded drawings! They are great.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

(Message edited by Hap_tucker on December 23, 2015)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 02:33 am:

Thanks Hap.
I think that it is just another name for Cotter Pin, or as my Dad called them here in Australia , Split Pins.
My very first model T, bought in 1965 had that earlier version pressed steel muffler and it had the split pin.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 03:21 am:

Hap, my dad always called them cotter keys too, but I wanted to make sure what I drew is the same thing we're talking about.

John, I've got several kinds and sizes of those but the best one and the one I use all the time is a button hook (works good on springs too) that belonged to my great granddad. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 03:34 am:

The one I want though, never saw one till somebody posted it here, that one that looks like a pair of pliers, with a hook on the upper jaw...now that's a neat extractor!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 04:12 am:

Martin,
I went through what parts books I have, NZ, Aust, and overseas, after 1920 the C pipe is all that is listed.
On another part of this topic, as Allan stated, if you wanted a cotter pin (in Australia) you would be sent to the push bike shop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 05:55 am:

Frank , I remember those bike cotter pins well.
If the nut worked loose you soon found out with the pedal slopping about.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 06:21 am:

Frank...never seen one of those before and I can't figure out how they worked either. I'm pretty sure nothing that fancy was used by Ford for mufflers...too many parts (two is one two many). Like was said before, you could use a bent nail to do the same job...most likely it was a cotter pin or key or whatever you want to call it. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 07:04 pm:

Martin, until they came up with a one piece pedal/crank arm set up on bicycles there was a central axle in the frame and the two pedal arms were fixed to that. The central axle had a flat on each end, at 180 degrees to each other. When the pedal shaft was installed, the cotter pin was fitted with its tapered flat against the flat on the axle. As the nut is tightened, the pin wedges the arm tightly to the axle.

Hope this explains it.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 07:30 pm:

Frank, it's true in 1927 The 4037C pipe with the electric upset bulge was the only pipe in use all over the world...but this pipe on the 21-24?? drawing predates it's a wee bit, soooo maybe it really is a 4037B and the hole was drilled on site of assembly. As I recall, cars weren't shipped as assembled vehicles anywhere outside the US, but in (I think) 5 crates and assembled when or where ever they were shipped or delivered to.

Allan, I seem to remember seeing high wheeler's like my neighbor had. The shaft was a straight bar with holes on the ends and the pedals fit into those holes and some big pins tied them in the hole...looked to me to be a tapered pin, driven in with hammer, don't remember seeing one of those pins though, but I suppose it could've been. Wasn't all that interested in high wheeler's they looked dangerous, neat and very old time looking...but he never could get me on that thing. Not riding something I could break my neck falling off of just standing still, never mind the possibility of taking a bloody header.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 08:16 pm:

My research into these Canadian mufflers has not turned up any definite date for the change to the Upset Bead on the exhaust pipe.

Unlike the USA records that are readily available at the Benson Ford Research Center if such records exist for Ford Canada they are hard to access these days.
I believe that all the Archives for Canada are now held by FORD MOTOR Co. USA.

These pictures are from a January 1926 owners manual. We know that by that time the change had been implemented.

The Canadian Owners Manuals seem to be the only ones that have these drawings.
I have checked the US and British manuals and they don't have the illustration.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 08:23 pm:

Allan in Aus that pin or similar was used in Studebakers wrist pin. Known as "father and son lock" in those days, probably not at Studebaker. Dave in Bellingham, WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 09:15 pm:

I remember using those damnable old arrows...you'd lift them off a waxed sheet with the tip of your knife and lay them onto an overlay on the drawing. Nick the line where you were going to bend it to make the leader and then cut to length...burnish it down with your whale bone burnisher and then lay your type (coated generously with rubber cement)...Ahh, the good ol days of art illustration! Glad they're gone. But I do miss somethings from those days...shadowing... and heavy line on the lower edges to keep an image from reversing, hard to do with the tools we have today. That's why I just settle for line shadows and upper arc fills. Otherwise I'd be drawing Model T parts in this style...



Actually I'm seriously considering laying out an isometric wiring diagram of the Model T, but I'm not sure if it would be useful or not? Everybody seems to like the "wire twister" schematics. I find them problematic though, I always get lost in all the lines...if I draw it, you wont get lost, you'll know exactly where all those wires go. :-)


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