TT Carrying Load Capacity

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: TT Carrying Load Capacity
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 12:03 pm:

I am looking to buy a TT for restoration and want to have 1324kg on the back.

Is the TT capable of towing that weight as I note the fact TT is for One Ton Truck yet Ford would use it to move their own products which weight more then one Ton using a TT?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 12:28 pm:

You initially say "on the back" and later "capable of towing". Are you looking for load information or towing capacity?

1324 kg equals about 3,000 pounds. We would haul that weight load regularly on our TT. Just don't be in a hurry.

We never pulled a trailer so I have no idea of towing capacity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 01:05 pm:

Yes sorry I am being confused by todays towing capacity. I do mean load capacity. I am wanting to load a tractor onto the back of one. A model F tractor. I have seen loads of pictures with them on the back.
My case would be are they capable and is it safe as in will I legally be allowed to drive with it loaded.
Speed is not a problem it would be to a show and back so no racing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 01:45 pm:

Your profile says you're in the UK. Whether it's legal or not will depend on UK laws not what anyone on this forum says. Last time I checked, one ton is 2,000 pounds in the US. You'll be overloaded. And since Model Ts have inadequate brakes to begin with, "safe" is a standard you'll have to define for yourself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 01:52 pm:

I have seen the pictures also BUT i would not try it without a good,solid,loading dock!!!! The truck bed must be blocked up to prevent the back from going down and the front from going up!!!! All the wheels Must Be Chocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your TT must be in good shape,No broken springs,Bad tires and wheels,and the woden deck must be solid!!!! If your deck is steel be careful as steel is slippery!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a nice Christmas and be safe or you might see the next!!!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 01:54 pm:

I know nothing about whether English law would consider it permissibly safe, but I do know that it's very common for TT's to have cracked or broken spring leaves from being overloaded.


It usually happens to the top leaves, which are hidden inside the cross member and therefore not apparent. The chalk outline here shows how much of the broken leaf is missing. My guess would be that Ford was being conservative in designating a one ton capacity and that the extra thousand pounds you're contemplating probably wouldn't break a spring. If you try it, I'd sure take Henry's advice and go slow, and go VERY slow over bumps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 02:09 pm:

It seems odd that ford would make the fordson tractor and then deliver it to almost every dealer using a ford ton truck. I mean hundreds of thousands of model f tractors were made and I can be certain most were delivered using the ford ton truck. Not every dealer would have been close to a rail road.
So I digress. Why ford would deliver thousands of tractors using a ton truck which is not even strong enough or not able to take more then one ton confuses me.
As in the first post I would be restoring the TT from scratch so springs would be renewed etc.

There is plenty of other trucks which are more then capable but they are not made by ford and it would not be the same rocking up to a vintage show without a ford and fordson together hence my quest to see if it was possible.

In regards to the law I can tow upto 3.5 tons gross (max combined) so I would be ok on that front. I do not know how it works in regards to if it comes out as it can only take 1 ton load against the database. I have struggled finding the info. Brakes etc would also be redone. In regards to loading and securing that is not something to worry about on this thread and I will use the system I have seen on all the pictures.

This is what I would like to achieve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 03:55 pm:

Sold my "TT" several years ago, but it had a rear spring that was perfect (probably not original factory spring though) but the rear cross member had been broken and re-welded many years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 04:02 pm:

I say tow again sorry but a max load including any towing vehicles of 3.5tons


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 04:55 pm:

Well if your still looking to buy a TT the one pictured has solid rubber rear tires and those might be better for the heavy load?? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 05:10 pm:

When I disassembled my TT for repairs/refurbishing I found the rear spring top leaf on one side broken in half and missing altogether on the other side. In addition, the leaves on the left side were all jammed up against the perch. Someone had previously taken it apart and then passed the bolt through only the bottom spring leaf. Of course I have it all back in order now, but it was a mess.

The moral of this story is listen to Steve above. Before loading so much as a bag of groceries thoroughly check out the suspension all the way around. That goes for steering, wheel hubs, tires, etc. too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 05:31 pm:

Thank you. I would have thought the solid rubbers would certainly help with load, a little more bumpy I guess.

In regards to telling me there is no way a TT could carry a tractor without falling apart Please see first post it would be restored!!
In my eyes (possibly not some peoples) a restoration means a complete strip down, remake, repair or replace, back to bare metal for examination and then repaint. Every component not just the usual's like brakes and suspension.

You make them sound awful if they cannot even handle a bag of groceries.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 05:34 pm:

Not forgetting they are nearly 90 years old so if you do restore one your bound to find leafs broken and I hope I have not made the impression that I will be buying one to put a tractor straight onto it. I saw an 8 year old Iveco (big van) with a broken leaf spring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 05:51 pm:

Here is some pics of one of my current restorations. Although I know nothing about the model TT so can only take on advice and leaf springs will be the first thing I look at once stripped.. I am not afraid of rust and work and would not buy one already done but one that needs saving.

Please excuse the mess in the workshop







Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 06:35 pm:

I think the 6.00 x 20" tires on mine are rated for 1350 pounds each, so you'd be well over the rating for them but you may be able to find higher rated tires than what I have.

I would recommend low-speed gears, and maybe a Ruckstell for that much weight, as well as upgrading the brakes to something better than the original transmission brake.

It would be VERY cool to see!

I have a '27 TT and my Grandpa has a '27 Model F. It sure would be cool to load it up, but my wood bed wouldn't support it... we'll have to settle for pictures of them side-by-side. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 07:01 pm:

Damn, it even looks heavy stripped down to the bones...Have to admit, I'm pretty curious what's encased in all that steel? I know the Fordson isn't really in my project purview (strictly speaking), but it do look interesting all the same. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 07:22 pm:

Pneumatic tires...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 08:01 pm:

I'm not against adding more braking power, but with that worm drive rear end do TT drivers ever even use their brakes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

Tim,
My TT has a Muncie. In high/3rd I can move out a little past 30 MPH. I know that's not very fast by modern standards, but I'd never go that fast n the ol' truck without good brakes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 09:21 pm:

Tim, they roll very easily. I can push mine on a solid surface by hand. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, December 24, 2015 - 09:23 pm:

Forgot to say, with the auxiliary transmission in neutral. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 12:24 am:

I hauled a load of brick stacked to just below the rear window, with 800 sq. ft. of
sod on top with mine. Can't imagine your tractor weighs more than that.

My truck looks exactly like the last photo posted. OEM Ford stake bed with no
frame extension.

It ran fine on easy downgrades and on the flat, .... almost like there was no extra
weight there, but I used much care in choosing my route to avoid any steep down-
grades.

Upgrades were another matter and one gets a good sense of what 20 horsepower
means when they try to use it to push a well loaded TT up a big hill ! ... but Ford
high/Ruckstell low got it done. The real concern is other idiot drivers and one's lack
of emergency braking. I don't think weight of load is your problem, it's more about
stopping that extra moving weight, should some stunt driver decide to pull out in
front of you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 12:56 am:

Well colour me surprised then. I would have thought the worm gear would be next tI impossible to push and just closing the throttle would be enough to all but stop the thing.

I learn something new every day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:08 am:

Tim, that's a common misconception. Just ask anybody who's missed a shift with an auxiliary transmission and got stuck in neutral how much they slowed down! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 02:22 am:

Here is another of an F on the back of TT but not quiet what I had in mind to do.


Inside the F is pretty much whats on the back of a TT. Worm drive and some good old gears. Problem with the worm drive is its super strong. They used to call them the flippin fordsons because if a plough got stuck or hit something, you were were not quick enough on the clutch pedal the tractor would just keep going and ride up over itself and onto the driver. Hundreds possibly thousands died then the mud guards came along which helped a lot. All part of the fun though.

I have some pictures of the actual back end stripped down and the components out ready for restore so I will dig them out later for you as its rare to see pictures of the transmission stripped down on a F.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 02:52 am:

Ok so found some pictures. The worm gear attached to a lovely (I think) phosphorous bronze coated wheel.

Plenty of gears which slide into each other.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 02:54 am:

I say coated I think the entire wheel is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 02:57 am:

Yep! Don't leave that where the scrappers can find it, or it will be gone! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 09:20 am:

Cool Pictures, I have also wondered what exactly was inside a Fordson. I also wonder if that ring gear is severely worn. In a TT that would be very worn as those edges look almost knife edged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 10:46 am:

I think the last picture is about the worst example you could ever see!!!! Please do not think your luck will last!! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 11:12 am:

I do not understand what you mean Kenneth?
They are absolutely fine compared with others I have seen albeit a little chipped here and there but not forgetting this does a maximum of 6mph (if I am lucky) and will not be doing many miles per year.

Maybe in a TT they are different? This is where my inexperience of the T engine and running gear differ from a larger agricultural engine and running gear.

I will have to get a picture of it fitted so you can see the fitment in regards to the cogs lining up. Bearing in mind this is an agricultural engine so will bounce and bump about the place so a little give must be incorporated.

Saying that I think the pictures are not quiet doing the part justice. The actual wheel itself is almost 50cm so the points are more like 5mm thick rather then a knife edge. There is nothing to help gauge size.... In the first and second pictures the nut on the back of the worm gear is 1 1/2" if that helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 12:30 pm:

I know we are talking two different vehicles, but just for comparison, I have posted a picture below of a NOS TT ring gear I just obtained. See how the teeth are flat on the tips? I have no idea if a Fordson is supposed to be this way or not. It is not so much the engagement between the worm and ring gear as it is the back lash (clearance) between the two that is the issue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:28 pm:

More teeth means that the flat areas get smaller. A high speed ring gear for a TT didn't have as big of flats as the low speed because there were two more teeth within the same circumference. This is why most of the high speed gears are about junk if they were used a lot. The Fordson probably had very small flats due to the number of teeth on the ring gear. You can also see that the worm doesn't allow for teeth much bigger than what is there.

The angle of the teeth on the Fordson also makes it look like it would be much less apt to be pushed compared to the TT.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:31 pm:

oooooo that is nice.

I see what you mean. I guess the worm is also much wider between the teeth then on mine?

In that case I will look into it further but all the ones I have seen are like the one above. The worm itself has a very prominent point to the teeth then on the pic above.

Another thread showing a fordson wheel.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/362002.html?1368619182


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:32 pm:

picture above the picture above thank you Justin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:34 pm:

for some more comparisons. So the bottom one is a TT wheel still? What size is the TT worm wheel out of interest (roughly)?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:35 pm:

Me,Sorry i was refering to the last loaded TT picture! To me if a board breaks someone might die.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 01:38 pm:

Ha Ha sorry Kenneth have just looked above and seen what you mean. Imagine having to break hard...... ford on tt.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, December 25, 2015 - 08:07 pm:

Mess in the shop? What mess?
You look busy!
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 01:38 am:

Me: were did you find that last picture of the Fordson loading off of the ramp? I have never seen this one before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Me on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 04:20 am:

I think it was on another forum a while ago, while I was searching for tractor pictures. Basically the other side of the picture posted above.

Back to the topic sorry I went off abit, so it will be capable of taking the weight as long as I look to renew or beef up the suspension and brakes and load bed.
I will be getting one in need of complete restoration so I can build it from ground up.

I have seen one that has a seized engine, no bed but comes with a rocky mountain gearbox.
Is the chassis something I should worry about rust wise or are they pretty good generally?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 07:04 am:

I think it would depend on what the frame actually looks like. Heavy rust pitting in the frame will obviously weaken it. The TT frames are much bigger, thicker and more durable than a car frame. I think the key thing you have to remember is you will be carrying a load, and therefore have to accommodate for such. If it was me, I would do it, but I would put some type of accessory brakes on or even adapt some hydraulic brakes. Also, with a TT, you won't (can not) be in a hurry. I would expect 15 MPH tops all loaded up. That is fine except for the fact everyone else nowadays wants/has to go at least 3 time that putting your safety at risk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 11:17 am:

The suspension is heavy enough as is, if it is in good shape. Rocky Mtn or other brake upgrades are a must, especially with an auxiliary trans or Ruckstell. I have crossed the scales at 6000 lbs in my dump truck an it handles fine, albeit with 12 forward gears and some extra muscle in the engine room. That's near a 4000 lb load, counting the weight of the dump box. Don't attempt if you are in a hurry to get somewhere.
I hope that Fordson in the pic above was tied down somehow. Stab the brake pedal and you would be skewered by the starting crank and squashed down into 8 gallons of gasoline on top of the exhaust pipe. Recipe for a really bad BBQ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 11:33 am:

Me,

Your original question is whether a 2919 pound load would be suitable for a one ton TT to carry as payload.

If you do the restoration yourself - you can engineer & improve the payload capacity.

Whether the concept is practicable and/or permissible to be operated on your local roads is best answered by you & your local motor vehicle authority.


Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 06:20 pm:

You could add a second rear axle as T-Model Tommy did in the book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 07:42 pm:

Me, you got anymore pictures of those triple gears...I'd like to see what that's all hooked up to.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 08:15 pm:

Martin,

Those aren't triple gears. They're the transmission gears. It's not a planetary transmission but a more conventional sliding gear type tranny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sullivan on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 08:47 pm:

Another old guy, I was about to suggest T model Tommy to the forum. By (maybe) Stephen W Meader to see how they did things then. Maybe also see Bulldozer by the same guy. Dave in Bellingham,WA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 12:49 am:

There was an article in the Model T Times back in the late '80's-early-'90's(I think) about "Goat" Robertson hauling a 7 ton Gum tree log on his TT with a semi trailer down south somewhere. VERY good story. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 05:26 pm:

Hey "me", be kind to your rear shackles. Jack up the bed and rear springs and rest the rear spring 'eyes' on a slab of hard wood like oak when you carry that Model F.
And Justin H, your picture intrigues me. That tractor has the ladder side radiator shell of 1918-19 but rear fenders came out in '24. But they're not Ford fenders because of the lack of tool boxes, huh?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 07:37 pm:

Aftermarket George? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 08:12 pm:

That picture was posted by Jay over on the MTFCI site some time ago. I saved it when I was looking into how TT's were painted. The paint chart shows that truck bodies had a dull paint and all other chassis parts were shiny which that one seems to show. As far as the tractor goes, I have no idea.


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