Hone, Stone or Ball Hone?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2015: Hone, Stone or Ball Hone?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 09:31 pm:

Which is best for a glaze breaker? I was also reading the other night that honing is going out of favor. Ideas? PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Baudoux Grayling Michigan on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 10:58 pm:

The best glaze breaker is a ball hone, or "Dingle Berry". The only time a hone should be used is to change the size of the cylinder, or finish a bore job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 10:58 pm:

? I don't know what you're asking, so I don't have a comment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 11:01 pm:

Now I know. I have a "Dingle Berry" if U want to borrow it. It works good, but a hone would work good too as long as U don't over do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, December 26, 2015 - 11:21 pm:

The important thing is to get a good "cross-hatch" pattern on the cylinders to encourage break-in and seating of the rings to the cylinder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 01:21 am:

It depends on how bad the cylinder is to begin with? And what do you want to accomplish in cleaning it up?
There are several considerations. Clean and ready for new rings is the minimum. The "dingle-berry" is fine for this, basically, only this. I have never used one, but am not opposed to them provided the other aspects of the cylinder are good.
Cylinders naturally tend to wear crooked in several different directions. They wear more on one side than they do the other. They wear more on the other side than they do on the front or back. They wear more at the top, than they do the bottom.
If they are badly worn, only a properly boring bar (or rigged milling machine) can correct them. Hones are self centering and will adapt to the wear offsets.
There are two basic types of hones (many minor variations).
Depending upon what you want to accomplish? If the cylinder wear is not too bad, a "flexible" hone will clean and smooth the cylinder walls. It will slightly even out minor unevenness. Because of the way dingle-berry balls bounce spinning within the cylinder, they can, under some conditions, make that unevenness worse (usually not a problem).
If a cylinder is a little worse, in terms of taper, oval. or egg shaping? A ridged hone can help clean it up. It also is self centering, but will cut the lesser worn areas more than the more worn areas of the cylinder, resulting in a more even and straight cylinder. THERE ARE A COUPLE SERIOUS problems with this.
One is that if the bore is enlarged more than a couple thousandths of an inch, properly fitting a piston could be troublesome. Machine shops used to knurl (or expand) pistons. This coupled with a ridged hone could make a marginally decent bore like absolutely new again!
Another problem that traps people sometimes, is that because a cylinder wears more at the top than it does the bottom? The hone has to cut the bottom more than it does the top. This in turn wears the hone's stones more at the lower end than at the top end. THIS in turn causes the hone to cut the cylinder crooked, more at the top, than it does the bottom.
The stones NEED to flipped over from time to time (generally fairly often) to balance the wear. You, in turn, NEED TO MEASURE THE CYLINDERS for STRAIGHT fairly OFTEN. I usually work on all cylinders in an engine a little bit, then flip the stones, and work all cylinders again in reverse order. Flip the stones again, reverse order again. Measure with a basic inside caliper several times through the process. The most important measurement to check is the extreme top to extreme bottom of the cylinder. Otherwise, because the stones can wear more on one end than the other, the ridged hone can wind up cutting several thousandths off straight. Not fun to break pistons into little pieces a few seconds to a minute after first startup.

I like using a ridged hone! With just a little measuring, and a little cutting, it can and will tell you how good or bad your cylinder really is. If it barely touches the cylinder on most of it, but cuts hard in a couple little areas? You need more than you may want to do.
Yet, with a little effort, and careful measuring, a ridged hone can do a beautiful job on an engine. Without going into the reasons how and why? One of the nicest model T engines I ever had I cleaned up what turned out to be a BADLY worn standard bore that had over fifteen thousandths inch taper in the cylinders. I carefully fit a set of twenty thousandths oversize high compression pistons in it. It took a little time, but the ridged hone cleaned up that mess of wear.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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