Generator or Magneto?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Generator or Magneto?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Collins on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 09:55 pm:

So this is what I understand. The magneto generate electricity to send to the spark plugs to power the engine. Isn't that what the generator does also. Why do I have both.
Why I ask is that I just pulled my grandpa's model t out of storage and I've been getting back to road worthy. I got it running but only on the battery. I flip over to magneto and the engine just shuts off. I don't have my grandpa around anymore for his knowledge base on the model t. Just learning as I go and remembering what he told me.
If I can get power out of the generator I can just run on that right?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:04 pm:

Jeff,

The generator charges the battery. The battery powers the starter, lights, and horn.

Before the Ts were offered with electric start (in January of 1919) the magneto was the only electrical power source and it powered the coils, the magneto-powered horn and the electric lights, which were introduced on the '15 models.

The output of the magneto is alternating current (AC) and it sounds like yours is dead for one reason or another.

Alex, please pray the rosary for me. :-)

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:12 pm:

Oops, I forgot to add:

The battery (6 volt lead-acid type) is also used on those cars that have it, to make starting more convenient.

The owners of "non-starter" cars often added (4) 1.5 volt "ignition" dry cells in series to aid starting.

Yes Jeff, you can run your car's ignition off the 6 volt battery but performance will be limited mostly due to timing lag (retard) at higher engine speeds. It would be best for you to get that magneto going. (another post, another time)

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Collins on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:31 pm:

I should of added what model T i have.
I have a 1925 Vegetable wagon (depot hack type).
That would explain why I'm not getting enough power in high gear.

So if I pass on pulling the motor to recharge the magnets on the magneto I can run off the battery but won't have much power. I've read how to recharge the magnets in the vechile. I have to say it doesn't sound complicated but does sound scary to do. Kind of like the time my friend welded on a old gas tank.

Thanks for the explanation


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:31 pm:

Jeff,
Seth has pretty much said it. Right at the top of the transmission just behind the engine block under the firewall is an electrical connection with which should have a red wire on it. That is the magneto connection. It is important that you not make any connection between the magneto and the battery. There should be enough electricity coming out of that connection to light a 12 volt light bulb connected one side to that post and the other side to the engine chassis. If it lights up with the engine running, your magneto is working. If you have an analog voltmeter you can connect it across the light bulb and get about 6 volts at idle and higher up to about 25 or 30 volts at high speed. If this is so, your magneto is useable and you may check the red wire from the magneto to a connection plate and from there to the ignition switch. It is important to have the magneto wire connected to the magneto or MAG connection on the switch and not to the Batt connection. The battery is connected to the Batt connection and the magneto to the MAG connection and they should not be in contact with each other. If you have a good wire from the magneto post to the switch then your engine should run when you turn the switch to mag. There could also be a problem with the switch or the coils could be adjusted incorrectly. Usually, however it should run possibly rough but nevertheless run, if the magneto is good and the connections are good but the coils need adjustment but they run on battery. Find someone in your local club who can help you either himself or knows someone who is knowledgeable about the electrical system to give you a hand. Do you live anywhere near San Diego? If you do, I can help you. You might be related to me. I have a distant cousin named Jeff Collins. I met him once at Portland Maine.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Collins on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:42 pm:

Hi Norman
I actually live in Columbus Ohio and never been to maine. But I know a few Jeff Collins myself which is kind fo freaky their are alot of me out there. LOL. So guess it's not a short trip to diagnois my problem.
I read the test for the magneto. I actually ran the test over the weekend and I used a extra trailer light that was laying around. I did not get it to light up while the engine was running on the battery. I checked the post with a volt meter and I'm only getting between .8 and 1.33 volts depending on the ground I clamp to. So I defiantly have nothing off the magnets.

The car is registered for the Goodguys show this weekend here in Columbus so I'm kind of pressed for time. Going to limp it on the battery for now.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven G. Williams on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:48 pm:

Jeff, I've run my '14 on coils and battery for two tours now. Haven't had a chance to find out why the magneto isn't working. Had another project taking precedence. good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:53 pm:

Jeff,

Remove those three screws that hold the magpost down to the transmission cover (from here on out referred to as the "hogshead" because it kinda looks like one) and remove the magpost. Peer down in that hole and make sure that you see a spot of solder clean of lint. Lint from cotton tranny bands can interrupt the output of the mag to the magpost.

Alternatively, disconnect that red wire on the magpost and measure resistance from the magpost output to ground. You want about 1/4 ohm. Much more and you either have lint problems (likely) or almost an open circuit in the magneto windings.

Weak magnets should give more loaded output than a volt or so if the magpost is lint-free and the magneto field coils are in order (not almost open or grounded anywhere in those 16 "spools").

Good luck with your project!

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:25 pm:

Seth,

Said three decades, you want the other 2 let me know. Yesterday when Bob was over I went to show him how Josephine would pop over on Mag & flooded her out. Today when no one was watching I had no problem. I truely believe the polarity of observers have an adverse affect.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:44 pm:

Alex,

'Tis always great to have a good Catholic on my side - especially since I don't have a St. Christopher hanging from either of my rearview mirrors.

You are awesome, so how come one of those lady friends of yours hasn't gotten you up to the altar yet?

Perhaps she's scared she won't be able to keep up with all that love of life you've got!

Thanks for the three decades - I think I'm in the clear now.....

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Speedster Inc. on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 11:51 pm:

Jeff,
One more thing make sure your connections are clean and tight. My one T wouldnt run on mag and it turned out to be the switch was coroded.
Good luck
JS


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 05:49 am:

Difficulty in starting a T increases in direct proportion to the number of people watching. I have faith that someday, someone researching the info at the Benson Archives will find the original Ford specs that cause this phenomenon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 12:38 pm:

As you observe, running on 6v is not too good.
As you also observe, fixing the magneto is what's needed - worth a try to re-magnetize in-situ.

But a quick fix for now would be to carry a 12v battery just for the ignition system. Disconnect the wire from the magneto post and connect it to a 12v battery instead. Re-charge it after a trip.
Not as good as a magneto, but much better than 6v.


Add a Message


This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Username:  
Password:
E-mail:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration