The last round, the manifold was red hot in minutes at a fast idle. I could feel the heat as soon as I moved to that side of the engine, and shut it off.

Since the rebuild, I've never run the engine more than 3 or 4 minutes at a time, maybe 15 minutes total. I start it, chase leaks, tweak coils & other stuff, shut it off. It has radiator & water, but no fan.

What should I look for? The only idea I have would be pretty bad news, so I'm hoping someone has some advice.

The starter doesn't work yet. Fortunately, it starts very easily - one pull with choke, one without and it starts.

All plugs seem to be firing (at least the engine slows down as I short each one out individually). Coils set "by ear" as I don't have anything to test them with yet. Running on 6v battery; it just barely runs on mag, only about 4-5 volts AC. No generator, haven't got that far yet.

Would a severely retarded spark cause ignition in the exhaust manifold? I keep forgetting to advance it after starting, but this seems like a pretty extreme result. And if the plugs were cross-wired, it seems like it should sound better when the offending plugs are shorted.

Stan

Stan,

Running for any length of time "severly retarded" will cause the manifold to glow red...very hot.

Mike

Timing - retarded timing results in a hot exhaust manifold. Remember that the timing on a Model T is a combination of two factors - the static setting of the timing with the left lever all they way up, and how far down the lever is pulled. Running with the left lever all the way up can result in a red exhaust manifold. Try running the engine with the left lever pulled at least half way down.

Lack of fan - this will cause an engine in a stationary vehicle (or on a test stand) to eventually overheat with the water boiling. But it won't cause the exhaust manifold to overheat.

There is no way to set coils by ear. You need to send them to someone like Ron Patterson (there are others LOL)so they can be set properly. You might be able to get the car to run but it won't run right with a goofed up set of coils. Doing anything to them "by ear" is goofing them up.

In the short term, you must always advance the spark immediately after starting. That is your problem that causes the exhaust manifold to glow red.

A Model T should not sit still idling for any amount of time except what is necessary, so if you are not driving limit idling time to 5 minutes or less.

That "extreme result" IS the result of running the timing retarded.

Stan

Do you have anyone handy that might be able to help? I've had bad coils before but they did not make my engine overheat. I agree with others that you should not run engine if this is happening but have you checked the timing and proper valve opening and closing. Are the the pistons at the right positions relative to timing? Are the wires to the timer connected properly or posibly grounding when they should not?

Andy

Thanks, all for the advice.

The problem seems to be that the spark advance rod is way off. To idle well, it has to be all the way in the down position, which means that there is no way to advance sufficiently for normal driving speed. At least it's not the timing gear set wrong.

Is there an "ideal" setting for the timer when the lever is all the way up? (i.e., x degrees ATDC?) The bends in the spark advance rod leave a lot of latitude. I might even have the rod in backwards - something else to look at on another car while in Richmond...

Ford specifies 15 after. With only 6 volts DC for your ignition, only 5 after might be better.

When it starts after setting to 5 after, pull it down halfway and reduce the throttle to a low idle.

My bet is that the manifold will now longer be on "broil" - though it will be hot!

Good luck with it.

Seth

Stan, I think there is a 'generic' setting you can baseline the timing at. (Someone help me out here, CRS is kicking in...).

Aside from setting it correctly, I seem to remember you can 'eyeball' it this way:

Retard the spark lever. Measure the distance from the timing rod to the bolt that holds the hold-down strap. I think the distance is supposed to be like 2 1/2"?? Bend the rod appropriately to make the measurement. Make any sense at all? Someone help me out here..

OH, btw,...if the timing is severly retarded as we all seems to think it is...then your strong arm starter is probably pretty safe. Be careful starting it after you 'advance' the baseline...

Doogie

See you in Richmond!!!

Stan,

Are you bringing the car to Richmond? If so there ought to be any number of people there who can help you. Ron Patterson might even be able to rebuild your coils on site!

I wouldn't try setting timing by the distance method. It only works for original Ford timers in like new condition. Anderson timers require a different distance.

One simple way to set timing is to rotate engine unil the pin through the front pulley hub is at about 3:15 clock time, ie just past horizontal. Then with the left lever all the way up bend the rod so the coil starts buzzing when the lever is just slightly pulled down.

Pull number 1 plug and put a wire down the hole, on top of the piston. Slowly crank the engine over, watching the wire. When the wire comes up and just starts down, your coil should buzz with the timer set at full retard. Bend your timer rod to make this happen. It will only buzz every other rotation. BTW, this is also when the pin in the pulley hub is at about 3:15.
Noel

Yes, I'm bringing it to Richmond. If the driveshaft is back by then, she might even be able to move under her own power. Then I can learn everything I dun wrong up close and personal.

I still want to see what is wrong with the coil setup procedure in the Ford Service manual. Now that I have refound my feeler guage and have an amp meter, I'll give it a try.

What year car? I believe there's a difference between the timer rods on '26-7 engines and the earlier ones. Seems to me that mixing them up can make proper advance difficult. Or maybe I'm getting CRS too.

Stan,
You say you've only run it for about 3 or 4 minutes since the rebuild. Start it, idle it for about 30 minutes. Put a hose in the radiator fill spout with a small trickle of water and open the bottom petcock to let a little water drip through and eat a sandwich.
Dad did this trick when he rebuilt new engines, I have done it and they are still running great.
The engine is just tight and needs to be run in.
Then, after it is looser, then check the coils and timimg. You need to run the engine.
Also, no one has mentioned how rich your running your fuel mixture, or how lean. Try adjusting it as the engine warms up.
Hope this helps ya.

Joe R.