Ford prepared two Race Cars for the Transcontinental Race. The crossed the continent from New York with Ford number two arriving in Seattle about 17 hours before the next arrival. These two cars made a grand and glorious cross country return, visiting all the major cities, all the way back to New York.

My question to John Regan, Trent Boggess, Bruce McCalley, et al.

Is there anything in the archives about this race? What happened to these cars? It's really hard for me to believe, with Henry Ford's great sense of History, etc. that he would have allowed these cars to be destroyed. But apparently they were; because in 1953 Fred reissued a booklet on the Race and prepared a replica of the winning car number two. Bill Barth in about 1980 restored a Replica of Number one. I don't know where that car is today.

Some 90 days after the race the AAA of NY disqualified the winning Ford. It appears that Ford never recognized the disqualification. The Selden law suits were in progress at the time and Ford lost in NY just prior to the disqualification. Ford appealed and won in 1911 and the Selden Patent ran out in 1912.

Hi Fred

not sure if this helps but Ed Archer and a friend did the baja 1000 in the early 1970's in a replica #2 I believe there was an article in the an issue of vintage ford magazine back then. BTW loved the video on how to install band lining on the bands, next week will be my first attempt on doing it to my speedster.

The first photo is the first car to arrive in Seattle, the number 2 Ford welcomed by Henry Ford.

Second Photo is the formidable opponent, the Shawmut.

The third photo is Seldon (an attorney) and the Seldon car which Seldon had built for legal purposes in about 1908. Note the car has 1877 on the side. That was the year Seldon applied for his patent. He held the patent open until 1996 while adding the latest auto features from Europe and the US. Although Ford wouldn't pay, Seldon made millions from GM and others.

Here's a link to some info about the race.
It's on a website called Historylink that's about Washington State history.
The race was in conjunction with the Alaska-Yukon Exposition in Seattle...a World's Fair.

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=2151

There are other references to the race on the website.

Here's another link to the Alaska-Yukon-Pacific Exposition Commerative website.
I think there's more info about the race here.

http://www.aype.org/

At the AACA National meet in Waterloo. Iowa (1962 I believe), Les Henry brought a reproduction of the 1909 racer #2. I had my 1910 there parked near the '09. I knew Les and had visited with him in Dearborn in about 1955. The Woodhead collection also had a reproduction '09 # 2 racer built up by Bill Barth of Mich. This T was sold for $45,000 at the Woodhead auction in Oct. of 2004. The Model T #90 (also by Barth) brought $95,000. I was told it went out west. A local Minnesota collector says the engine block in #90 was a new casting. The 1917 Couplet brought $30,000. This couplet was really a 1916 updated. I have a list of all the cars sold at this auction and what they sold for. Woodhead came from a family that had owned Woodhead Ford in Minnerapolis, Minnesota. He was John Woodhead III, He had about 50 fine Fords from 1903 Model A #300 (ex Harrah) to a 2002 T bird brought right off the assembly line and with almost no miles. He lived in Delano, Minnesota and the collection was housed in a museum by his home. Kruse held the auction. Auction code was WOODHEAD04; MAKE; Ford

http://www.oceantoocean-in-a-t-llc.com/
lots of pictures and links.

Darel, I believe you are mistaken about the Model T restored by Bill Barth. I believe it is Model T number one, not two. The Racer number 2 brought by Les Henry at the 1962 AACA meet was likely the car restored by Ford around 1953? Do you know who purchased the Barth restoration in Oct of 2004?

There was a re-creation of one of the race cars at the Ford Centennial party which had the wide (southern) track.

Ted Van Beek of Clatskanie, Oregon, put together the wide track racer from mostly 1909 parts for the 2001 Greatrace in which it ran every day, but with some DNF. He had determined the originals were wide tracks based on a picture.

He sold it to a guy in Aridzona several years ago.

rdr

Not the T, but the Selden car with the 1877 on the side is now part of the Henry Ford's collection and it is on display inside the museum.

Anyone know whatever happened to this replica?

Article is from The Restorer for July-August, 1959.

automotive milestones

The Henry Ford's reproduction #2 race car was sold at auction in the early 1980's along with the 50 millionth Ford. It was an interesting car that was built up from the remains of a later May 1909 touring. In about 2000 the owner of the #2 car decided to sell it, and a friend of mine purchased it. He had it up through the Ford Centennial, and the car was used by FMC seveal times during its centennial year. About 4 years ago my friend sold the car to another collector, and since then I have lost track of the car. However, I am sure it is out there somewhere.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

Thanks Phil, Perhaps that's the Henry Ford's reproduction Number 2 race car that Trent is telling us about. I am not so patiently awaiting for the early eighties copies of the Model T Times magazines that Frank Fenton is puting on Disk. In those issues the Bill Barth restoration of the Number 1 Race car is presented in great detail. Bill also carefully studied and documented the Ford replica of the Number two race car. As I recall, the Ford replica was a reproduction made primarily from a 1913 chassis. The Barth replica of number 2 was near perfect or as we say in the International Club, Stynowski quality. I can't recall if Bill received the Stynowski trophy or not. He certainly should have.

Thanks to Tom and Ralph and Trent for your information. I had not heard of the wide-track angle. That's very interesting. Should be easy enough to check it out or perhaps Bill Barth can verify. Thanks to all.

I have placed Bill Barth's Replica of Ford Race car number 2 into nomination for MTFCA Racer of the Year.

FYI - the #2 race car owned by The Henry Ford and later auctioned in the 1980's was the #2 car built by Bill Stroppe in 1959.

I would love to see pics of the one Bill Barth built. Bill is a tremendously meticulous craftsman.

I spent some time this afternoon looking at the shipping invoices for Model Ts assembled during the last two weeks in May 1909. Engine #3572 was put in a chassis fitted with a "Special Body". and was equipped with Firestone tires . A note at the top of the card reads: "New York to Seattle Racer", and just below that "Have Cylinder. The car was assembled on May 24, 1909. It was ordered as "Factory Car".

The equipment listed on the car is a Kingston Carburetor and Coil, a McCord radiator, and Prudden wheels. There is no evidence of gas or side lights being included on the order.

One more note states that the car was returned on October 3, 1910.

I continued to look for the second car and I went a week ahead and a week behind #3572 but could not find it. It is very hard to look at these shipping invoices for more than a half hour without straining your eyes.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

Great find, Trent!

I wonder what the "Have cylinder" means?

rdr

Early auto material often referred to the engine block as "the cylinder". Why that is there is interesting. There is the story that the engine (block) in number 2 was replaced during the race. This is why number 2 was disqualified. Perhaps a spare engine block was prepared before the race and was brought along in case it was needed.

Good work Trent. Exciting Stuff. Many thanks. The auction photo of the Barth car shows a Prestolite tank attached just below the side of the right hand seat. The color of the car is listed as light blue on the auction listing. Perhaps Gray?

May 24 seems to be a date fairly close to the race. Perhaps they were experimenting on the first car, working out the details, etc. Maybe the other car was several months earlier?

Trent ...eh that is, your kind sir, the "Professor of All Things Model T" (heh heh, spoke to ya at the Centennial on your new degreed moniker)
Your research on Racer 2, finding the shipping invoice is realy neat info. Also your mention of no lamps fitted on the racer according to the shipping records.

There was mention in magazines of that time that the Ford racers had Aluminum lamps to save weight.

A book by Curt McConnell 'Coast To Coast Auto Races of the Early 1900s' has chapter 3 on the New York to Seattle race and McConnell notes according to the magazine Automobile June 3 1909, .."the chassis was stripped of everything not absolutely necessary, such as fenders[,] and the running gear was painted a dull gray. Natural colors remained in all other parts, such as aluminum unfinished for the bodies, sheet iron unpainted hoods, and unpainted gas and oil lamps."

and another from Motor Field, July 1909..."Henry Ford was so weight conscious that each racer carried a special set of Solar brand headlamps made of aluminum instead of brass for a saving in each case of eleven pounds."

Dan

"sheet iron unpainted hoods" I thought all early hoods were aluminum?

rdr

The early 1909's had steel hood, no louvers, later in the model year the hoods were fabricated from aluminum.

As for the May 24 1909 assembly date for the "Special Racer", that would to me be the Racer #2. Henry Ford submitted his registration fees for his 2 Model T's in the New York to Seattle Race on April 11 1909, so would appear Racer #1 would have been made sometime in late April or May, and that #2 was on May 24, and rushed to New York for the 3pm ,Tuesday, June 1, 1909 start of the race.

Pic is the Shawmut and Ford #2 at end of race! Tired looking automobiles.....

Look at that front axle on the Ford...Sure looks like a wide track to me.....Thanks Dan



Speedy Dan, you've got a first place 2008 Centenial trophy coming....Congrats

Thanks Frank

That was really fun at the Winchester Speedway, watching all those faster than mine T's race around and around! Even got to meet Speedy Bill Smith with his patented black hat while having a brat! What fun....sure was fine of you to make that race day happen.

Here is a close up of the axle again, showing the length from the spindle to the shackle....maybe it is widetrack...can't be certain, perhaps not. But what if the Southern version of the T was the racer factory favorite! Or since the little T's were up against the big wide track Shawmut, Henry wanted to be able at least to follow in its tracks??? Ha..Ha

Ah

sorry tying too fast
I mistaked and wrote you as Frank...oops

meant Fred.

Guess I better sign off and go to bed.

Dan

The Shawmut probably also had the standard 56" track. Look how top heavy this Olds is on standard axles.



For comparison, here's a wide-track Ford:



rdr

I just returned from vacation to find this thread about the 1909 Model T race cars.

The #2 car, prepared by Bill Stroppe for the Ford Motor Company, is on display at the Towe Auto Museum in Sacramento, CA. It has a wide track front axle. If my memory is correct (frequently wrong these days), the rear axle is a later model (1919?) so the car would be more reliable for the 1959, 50-year reenactment events and the 4,000 mile drive from New York to Seattle.

Yup. I had already forgot about that one, Stan, and I hadn't even noticed the wide track.

RD Did you have time to stop at Bill Smiths Museum today?

No, had to pass on by. Stopped in Seward for the night, and went down to Milford, where Rob Heyen was at a local show & shine, and he took me in his '13 Touring to his "museum" with a '23 Tudor, '13 Buick Touring, and his nifty little N. I really enjoyed it; they are great people. We will do Pioneer Village in Minden today, on our way west on 80/70.

Didn't get any pix. My camera is like a flashlight - a storage case for dead batteries.

rdr

It's curious they would make the #2 repop a semi-widetrack. There is no indication of it from what I saw in Trent's research, above.

rdr

Enjoy Minden, Your now almost straight north of here, as to the #2 my guess is no one had any wide track rear housings when the plan came up to rerun in 59' J

The Harold Warp Museum is a "hidden" treasure. Most collectors do not know of it. Hundreds of old automobiles, motorcycles, farm tractors and horse drawn coaches. Harold developed a clear "plastic" window covering for use on farm windows. When they were going to tear down his old school house, he bought it and moved it to some land he owned at the edge of his boyhood town. The place grew and grew. Many items are misidentified as to age and model, but it is still a great place to visit. There is a motel, air field and fine restaurant on site. His brother ran a publishing house and would print up a special Christmas booklet for Harold. I have several and they are interesting. Take a look at the "1910" Model T Ford. It is a mixture of various years. They cleaned up the engine by painting it with aluminum paint. The 1903 Model A Ford sits next to a 1903 Cadillac. I have been there several times and plan to visit again.

Also a real Jenny hanging from the ceiling, plus many Curtiss OX5 and Hisso engines sitting on the floor under the plane. This Jenny is much better displayed than the one at Dayton. The one at dayton is hanging very high and stuck back in a dark corner.

For you city guys: What Harold Warp developed was a material that would let light into a chicken coop without stopping the ultraviolet rays as real glass does. The reason this was needed was (and is) that without ultraviolet light chickens will get "droopy" and peck each other until the chicken dies or has to be destroyed. I don't know everything about this but do know that Warps Woven Flexible Windows were in every chicken house in the country years back and that they are still one of the larger manufacturers of clear plastic material. All the old time hardware stores still carry Warps. I believe they also manufacture "Flexiglas." Similar to Plexiglas.

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