Where does the ID patent plate go on a 1926-27 Model T?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Where does the ID patent plate go on a 1926-27 Model T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 09:20 pm:

Originally posted: By Alex Alongi on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 01:10 am:

Alex Aongi posted the following Question: I'm missing the patent plate on the 1927 where would it go, I think they go under the hood rather than inside, but where?

++++++++++++++++

Alex posted his question while reading a 1915-now 1913 ID plate question. I’m sure someone with a 1926-27 can answer it easily for him. I was surprised that I could not find a good picture of that. But I’m sure someone here on the forum does have a picture or other information. I know there was a great photo article on the 15,000,000 Model T with lots and lots of pictures within the last 10 years. I would guess it would be clearly shown in one of those. But I cannot locate that copy. The only thing I found was the picture below from page 34 Nov-Dec 1980 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission) and also shown on page 397 of Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford.” I put a red box around what I think is the patent plate on the outside of the firewall.



Expanded version below:



If you look there on your 1926 coupe and there are two holes – that is a likely spot. But, I’m sure someone with a little more experience with the “Improved Fords” will confirm that location or provide the correct one.

Respectfully reposted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 09:41 pm:

Hap,

The patent plate on my 26 Coupe is inside the cab in the middle of the firewall and below the tank.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 09:50 pm:

The original patent plate on my '26 touring is inside, in the middle of the firewall below the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 09:54 pm:

Hap,

Thanks, I had an idea it was in that general area, no holes, but those could have been filled. Wondering if they could have been attached with somekind of mastic to speed up the procedure & over the years they just fell off.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 09:57 pm:

By the way I have the original patent plate for the Coupe somewhere in my shop in a baggie withe the original brass split rivets. It now has one of the repops on it. You could just barely read the original.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 04:01 am:

My '26 Coupe - see replies above


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:59 am:

Only 2 rivits on the '26-'27 patent plate. Earlier ones had 4 rivets. I'm not sure when the changeover was made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 01:20 pm:

Thanks to all who have thought about it and especially to those who were able to respond. I believe we still need to document where the 1926-27 patent plate ID tag was attached. The picture I posted earlier is not that clear and did not have any comments if the tag was in the original location or not. On some of the other pictures that I looked at that had the vaporizer carb set up, they did not appear to have an ID tag on the outside of the firewall under the fuel shut off. Although it may have just been covered up from the angle of the camera.

There may even be a chance that Ford used more than one location? Both Paul ('26 coupe) and Aaron ('26 touring) posted that their patent plate was on the inside of the car in the middle of the firewall and below the gas tank. Does anyone have any period photos or unrestored car photos that could help us out?

For Alex -- I'm certain the ID plate was help on with some sort of rivet and NOT an adhesive. Even the 1928-31 Model A Fords used rivets for the ID tag. Recommend you check for two holes near the center of the firewall under the gas tank and see if you find any that an ID tag would fit with.

For Ken -- the change over from 4 revits to 2 rivet type ID tag appears to have been some time during 1925 when they were still producing the 1925 style cars. We have several pictures include one from a very original unrestored touring that was on a used car lot back in the 1950-70s (I don't remember the exact year but it is in the "Vintage Ford" article) that shows the two rivet type on the 1925 model year.

For Chris -- I'm not quiet sure what you wanted us to see. I checked but I did not see a direct connection between the postings above and your 1926 coupe. But I sometimes miss the obvious. Please let us know what you wanted us to see.

Would someone please also post the distance "center to center" for the two hole type of ID tag? That should make it easier to verify which holes on the dash might or might not have been used for that.

Again, thanks to everyone for helping. If someone has a good picture of the ID tag mounted, please share them. And a side thought - did the TT truck place the Tag on the inside right like the 1925 model cars did since it continued to use the 1925 style metal firewall through 1927?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 02:27 pm:

Hap,

The center to center distance is 3 5/8. I have a cowl from what I believe to be an early 26 4 door in my T scrap pile. The patent plate on it is in the same place as my 26 Coupe.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sven Jakobsson on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 02:52 pm:

This is a picture of a Turing -26 that a friend here in Sweden had e few years ago. It might have been built in Copenhagen/Denmark and differ from US versions.
Best regards, Sven
Plate on Turing -26


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 07:27 pm:

If you look at the picture that Sven posted you can see what looks like the patent plate mounting holes on each side of the spark plug.

`Patent Plate Holes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gordon Byers on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 07:46 pm:

The original patent plate on my '27 is inside, above the floorboard about 1" and in the center of the firewall. It is secured with 2 rivets. I tried to get a picture of it but it has been painted over and doesn't show up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:17 pm:

Just want to thank everyone, especially Hap for starting this thread. Just went outside & with a strong flashlight & a rag to remove some oil, found the holes with the split on the rivets painted over, right where Sven's photo shows them. The paint is what's probably holding them on since there's nothing inside, my hunch is the rivet heads were cut off to remove the plate before painting the inside & it was never replaced.

Have a good weekend,

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By james dimit on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:32 pm:

Just got the camera battery recharged so I could get these pictures onto the computer. The first 2 are my 26 touring, the third my 26 tudor.

26 touring patent plate




These are all inside about 1" above the top floorboard, centered on the firewall / dash. I hope this helps, and if Hap or anyone wants to save copies for their records feel free to do so.
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:41 pm:

All the responses are from folks with 26 cars. Can someone out there confirm that the patent plate on a 27 is in the same place?

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gordon Byers on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:02 pm:

the pictures show the plate in the same place that I described for my '27.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:08 pm:

Gordon,

Sorry, my bad. It has been along week. I guess I should read the posts a little better before sticking my foot in my mouth. LOL

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:19 pm:

Thanks to everyone for helping to discover the answer to this one. I like the happy ending! And yes, thank you Jim for saying it is ok to use the photos again -- I'm sure the question will be asked again in the future. Once I learned where to look (on the inside just above the floor boards centered), I was able to find a picture of the patent plate on a 1926 coupe shown on page 28 of the Mar-Apr 1976 “Vintage Ford” (used by permission). The original picture was turned 90 degrees for the page layout, but you can see the ID tag to the right and slightly up from the brake pedal.



If anyone knows of other locations that may have been used please let us know. It appears for sure Ford USA used the position shown above the floorboards and centered left to right as a position for the ID dash plague. Perhaps the new book about the English Fords will shed some light on how they positioned the tags and what the tags said.

Again, thanks to everyone for reading and sharing what you found. Like the story of the stone soup – it is so much better after each of us adds a little bit that we have.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 12:36 am:

Hap,

You are right on with the stone soup analogy. That is what I like about this forum. The shared knowledge available here is priceless.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 12:46 am:

So was it put on with split rivits or hammered end rivits?

Travis
Topeka, Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 12:55 am:

Travis,

I can't speak for all of the 26/27 production but I have owned a 27 touring, 26 Coupe and have a suspected 26 4 door cowl in my bone pile and every one had patent pates held on with split rivets.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 12:59 am:

Very cool Paul, Thank you a TON! I was going to have to post this question later on in the year so I am glad to see it was posted and answered. I will put my new plate on with brass splits.


Travis
Topeka, Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 06:13 am:

On my original, unrestored, 27 Tudor the plate was in the middle, bottom edge of the firewall, just above the floor board. The plate is gone but the image of where it was is still there. I'm going to replace it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 10:37 am:

Hap, it appears the patent plates on the '26-'27 Canadian cars were in the same position as the American cars, inside, in the middle of the firewall, about 1" above the bottom.
The one on my '27 two door is missing, but the holes are still there.
I have a '27 plate I removed from a scrap, partial, '27 coupe body and it was on with solid rivets, not split rivets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 01:41 pm:

For Ken, Thank you for adding some Canadian information -- that is great. You mentioned solid rivets -- can you tell what the rivets were made from (brass, steel (rusty?), aluminum etc.)

For Paul and others -- for the split rivets you mentioned on the USA cars -- can you tell what they are made from?

For any UK or Australian readers, owners, or folks with information about them -- any ideas where the UK or AU 1926-27 data plates were located and what type of rivet they were held on with? Below is a picture of a 1926-27 Australian roadster body. [Don't get distracted by the earlier engine & transmission -- the body and chassis appear to be 1926-27 with the engine and transmissione replaced with an earlier unit.]



I don't see a patent plate and I cannot tell if there were holes there or not (I would GUESS [and it is only a GUESS] that the patent plate holes were there since the dash/firewall panel was produced in Canada and shipped to Australia for assembly with the other body panels. Does anyone have any information or knowledge about where the UK and/or Australian 1926-27 patent plates were located and what type of rivet held them?

Again thanks so much to everyone who has been reading and supporting this search.

Warm Regards,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 01:55 pm:

Hap,

I just went out to the shop and checked with a magnet. The split rivets on my cars are steel.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 05:32 pm:

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Although the engine is Nov 1926, the chassis is early January 1927, so I guess the body probably is too. The car is a Coupe, with Vaporizer - but wooden wheels - and the plate is where others say it is (e.g. James' pics), on the centre-line, inside the car, just above the front floorboard. Under the bonnet (hood to you - I'm British, but my car came from California), you can see the rivets behind the cyl head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 10:23 pm:

Hap, if memory serves me corectly they were steel rivets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:04 pm:

Paul and Ken,

Thanks so much for clarifying the type of rivets.

Chris -- Thanks for taking time to explain it again -- I got it that time.

For all -- thanks so much for your support. Anyone know a good place to order the steel spilt rivets to mount the USA ID tag? I looked in Lang's but I didn't see them listed next to the tags.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:40 pm:

Hap,

McMaster Carr lists some nickle plated steel rivets that look like they would work.

Paul


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 08:31 am:

Paul,

Thank you for the reminder. McMaster Carr has a wealth of parts. My coworker is building a homebuilt aircraft and he purchases items from there also.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 09:59 am:

Hap,

The remaining parts of the split steel rivets I discovered are pretty thin & tiny (reason it took me a while to find them under the paint), I was able to bend one up with the finger nail on my little finger, they appear to have been originally spread open with a finger or a screwdriver, since they're not spread evenly, kinda slap dash. If I have time today, I'll scrape the paint off them & see if they will photograph. It's the annual "Italian Festa" in Little Italy so I may be pre-occupied eating & drinking Vino (We're taking the Trolley).

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 12:57 pm:

Hap,

Hope this will help.



Not too clear but you can see where I sanded the rivets, actually wouldn't call them rivets, there more like brads.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 02:05 pm:

Alex,

Thanks for posting! Your description fits well with Ford was producing cars to sell not restorations to display. I would guess they used a screw driver or similar tool to bend the ends over. I hope you had fun at the "Italian Festa" and thank you for taking time to post the information.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Add a Message


This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Username:  
Password:
E-mail:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration