I'm going to start this and hope Robb Wolff joins in. He has a bunch in his collection, way more than I have. Anybody else, of course, is welcome to add what they have.
Here's my first one. First Generation Stromberg OF with the "gas strainer"
This one was pretty easy. I'd better go take some pictures so I have one for later.
Your turn, Robb!
Maybe you should tell us about the various versions of Stromberg OF. I have sold a lot of my carbs and will be selling a few more soon on ebay, so I will likely run out of photos before you do. Here is a Stromberg LF. I believe it is the first in the series designed for the T. The throttle bore on the stromberg carbs is 15/16" which is much smaller than most carbs designed for the T.
Marge and I are going out on a date soon so I will likely pick up the thread after the movie or perhaps tomorrow AM.
I don't mean to hijack the thread Stan but I seem to remember someone that was making some new float needles for the OF. I have one and believe it may be a leaking seat that is causing my hard starting when the engine is hot. My engine floods very easy then.
M = no accelerator pump; intended for tractors and stationary engines, but works fine on Fronty.
B = Sidedraft
1 = 5/4" throat
Stan you rascal, I was the second highest bidder on one of those Griffins.
Here's another one to make a pair of Harringtons.
If I was a gambling man I'd say, "I'll see that pair of Harringtons and raise you another Griffin."
Winfield 5H that I've run most of the time over the last ten years.
This is my daily driver carb. Winfield H.
Looks like yours is a size 4 with 1" throat, Robb; correct? Winfield made a 4V and 5V updraft also. I was told that Ed didn't like sidedrafts; dunno why.
Kim Dobbins kindly gave me an original brochure for it, a copy of which you can find on www.NWVS.org .
I will start another thread. I have a question or two about the Winfield.
Here's a model RF Stromberg aluminium Carb. I haven't been able to get this unit to idle. Does some one have a copy of the original RF manual they would like to share?
Here's the Marvel carb, made before Marvel was acquired by Schebler in the early 1930's. It has a cork float which kinda scares me, but it runs really well. The straight thru venturi is somewhat larger than the NH straight thru:
This is a Zenith side draft carb for Model T. I have been unsuccessful in making it run well, could be the old cork float is just too heavy and needs to be replaced. Again a straight thru venturi.
This is a really nice unused brass Rayfield Model UF carb for Fords. It came complete with all of it's accessories, manual, and the remains of the original box
This is the variable venturi Sunderman carburetor. It runs really well despite the odd square design:
This is an "Air Friction" carb. Haven't tried it. The air pathway is tortuous, so my guess is that this carb was designed for gas mileage and would hurt performance.
Here's a slick combo intake up-draft "AERO" carb. I have seen these advertized in the old Ford Owner Dealer Magazines. Has anyone run one of these???
Heres a neat Stromberg OF set up, never seen one with the hotspot connections before.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Model-T-Ford-Stromberg-OF-Hot-Spot-Carburetor_W0Q QcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a1Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3911Q2e c0Q2em14QQhashZitem330280445552QQitemZ330280445552
Royce, can you post a pic of the top place ot your Sunderman? I would like to know what size it it. Jerry
I understand the Sunderman is very reliable and runs very well because it was designed for agriculture or stationary T engines used for work. Ive seen several on original workhorse engines.
Jerry: here's a photo of the Sunderman top plate.
Here is a poster I did of one of my 4 ball carbs.
I would be afraid to use one of these as they are showpieces and the wife would be yelling at me that it will get dirty.Great pictures.
Here is another Sunderman data plate. The F does not stand for Ford. It is found on Sunderman carbs for other applications.
Here is a Rayfield L2P with the manifold, that I have. The set-up is unused. The linkage is unusual and there is a boss cast right into the manifold to accomodate it.
I believe this is a Sunderman for a stationary engine.
Jay's Sunderman, like mine, is stamped Model "F". This model was advertised as being suitable for Ford, Metz and Saxon fours.
I think your Sunderman has the wrong ID plate. Or perhaps the size "F" was made in various configurations with the "F" simply telling the venturi size?
I believe you are correct in saying that "the size "F" was made in various configurations with the "F" simply telling the venturi size".
Here's a mint in the original box TOQUET brass carb for FORDS.
I have a Master, as shown below, but haven't messed with it. It is apparently same as the famous Miller.
Here's a Zenith updraft carb/manifold combo for the model T.
It must be my turn again. I will be away most of the day so here is my contribution.
Why haven't the Brits or Downunders shown a Skinner's Union carb? I understand they work good on a hotT, so bought one off Tbay, but haven't done anything with it.
That "Skinner" looks like a vacuum controlled carb similar to an SU or Mikuni. Those types of designs came about after WWII as a result of aircraft carburetor design lessons learned during the war. Not appropriate or period correct on a T, but undoubtedly would run good.
Here's a Mayer. Haven't run it but it looks like it should run well.
That looks like it would run better in a more 'northern' climate Stan !!!
Regards to all,
Here's a Winfield updraft with combo intake manifold for the standard Ford.
For a carburetor junky like me this has been a most enjoyable thread. It is estimated there were over 200 different carburetors made for the T engine.
The Wizard (1st photo), and Simmons Super-power sold by Western Auto are among the more common ones. They were essentially twins. They both had a heating coil and both used a pot metal flapper to regulated low speed mixture.
Wow! Jay!! Where are you getting the NOS carbs? Either you have been collecting for a long time before this stuff got so rare and valuable or you go to better swap meets than I do.
I don't have anything super rare as far as I know. "Somebody" should write a book on these. As far as I know, there isn't one. I think Russ Potter has over 100 different one. I don't have any where near that many.
Here is a NEVERFAIL.
Here are a couple of twins that I borrowed from Les Schubert's scrap pile. The Dave Buick was manufactured by the Jackson Carb Co. of Jackson Mich. and the Briscoe was manufactured in Pontiac Mich. They are pretty much identical.
Here's a Hoosier Sub Carburetor setup with heat stove. It was used for increasing gas mileage 80 plus years ago.
OK!! Nuff Now!!! Yer Whuppin' Me!! You got that Briscoe on there just before I was going to post mine. Oh, well, I've still got a few left. Eat you heart out, boys, this is a BOOTY. Betcha never saw one of these!! I don't know how it runs. I finally got my test engine running, one of these days I'm going to get some of these out and try them.
Ain't this FUN???? I'm saving most of these pictures to a file so I can go back to them later.
Yep. Fun ;-)
Here is one with an unusual origin, for auto parts, - it's Danish:
First it was called TOGAFORD, then I suppose they got a visit from a lawyer - some chiseling & the remaining stock could be sold. I have another one that obviously has been run. They have the thickest throttle plates I've ever seen..
My last entry for today. A pair of Holley H-1 carbs showing the subtle differences between early and late production.
Here's a neat Carb Accessory NOS Gas Saver for the model T that dates back 80 years or so.
Here's another new in the original box carb gas saver that dates back 80 plus years.
Here's another NOS Carb accessory that dates back 80 plus years.
Cool Stuff, Jay!! Here's one I have not been able to find any info on. It is my prize!! I think it is pretty complete, maybe missing one piece on the vacumm bleed. It is an H & N Model L. I haven't tried it on an engine.
The thumbwheel that you can see through the slots adjusts the amount of air flow. I haven't taken it further apart to see what all is going on inside when it is running.
Stan: Thanks for starting this thread.It has been fun sharing with others some of our collection of after-market model T Carb stuff. It would be neat to see a complete pictural work on all the known model T offered carbs and related accessories.
That's a mighty big Skinner's Union (dba SU) carby. Looks to me like an HIF44 (integral float chamber, 44mm bore). Yes, it might be best on a hot T.
A better choice, IMO, for pretty much any T would be either an HS2 (1 and 2/8" bore) or an HS4 (1 and 4/8" bore). These would be a dime a dozen on trademe.com (a New Zealand version of eBay) since pretty much every Mini, and many others, had one or the other. A HIF38 is the integral float replacement for the HS4.
Here are two Skinner's Union HS2s on my 53 cubic inch, some 45 horse Mini. Pull great from 1,000 rpm.
Actually, Jay, I think Robb is working on one. I think that's why his are so well photographed. He has several other books he's done and does a lot of great photography. Robb's from Calgary, Alberta and I'm from Helena, Montana so we see each other a time or two a year.
I had some of this stuff laying around for years and never realized there were so many different ones. I've bought a few off ebay but anything really rare or top quality seems like it brings a lot of money. I can't compete.
It never ceases to amaze me how much of this type of thing still exists 80 years after the last T was produced.
You have some wonderful things. Don't quit now!!
Related topic: accessory, presumably for economy. 1915 car with Holley G, RHD. Idle adjusting screw head reduced so throttle can open max without touching accessory. As I recall, the horizontal part can be unscrewed and there's a small steel ball in there. I understand it doesn't affect running one way or the other. Does anyone know about these?
Those devices are known as "Sub Carburetors". They usually hurt performance. Jay posted pictures of two others above, the "Weeks" and "Penberthy". They are basically a vacuum leak at best. Some of them have restrictions that seriously hurt engine performance. You should plug it for best operation of your car, or even better, hang it on the garage wall as a conversation piece.
Just like today, people in the Model T era were sometimes gullible to con artists and often bought gimmick devices that did not work.
Thanks for sharing these carbs with everyone on the fourm. If someone does put together a photo book on all these different carbs as well as detailed information and discriptions I would be intersted in buying the first copy.
As Stan mentioned I have been doing research and accumulating photographs of "T" carbs with a view to some day doing a book. I would love to photograph some of the collections displayed here.
The challenge has been to find any information on the really unique pieces. I have uncovered quite a number of advertisements from vintage automobile trade journals. If any of you have manuals or other carburetor information that you would like to share please contact me off line.
Here are a couple of ads for carburetors that have been posted above.
There is another version of that David Buick/Briscoe carb. It was called the "SCOE" carburetor and was used on the Gray automobile. It's identical to those pictured except for the name variation.
Robb, did you get the Winfield info I tried to send last week? I have a Stromberg manual I'll send, too.
Here's one that is fairly common. They must run pretty well because they seemed to have been popular in the day.
Here's the U&J carb on my '15 roadster. Runs very well. The L - shaped stamped steel heat tube is removed in this picture, but you can see the cast iron heat shroud attached to the manifold.
Another pic of the U & J. They run great. That's what I have on my speedster.
Here's a neat sub-carb accessory.
Speaking of accessories...
This is an old time mileage gauge. Hang it in a window, hook up to carb, and fill it. Another Tbay treasure.
Hope it's OK adding a few old carb accessories alone with all the neat old carbs here. Here's a unit that uses a bi-metallic strip to adjust the mixture as the engine warms up.
Jay, I'm impressed. I like the vaporizer that was made in Chamberlain, South Dakota.
Keep 'em comming!
Here's a Rayfield. I like how they offset the inlet so it would fit in the space they had to work with.
Here's two other bi-metallic mixture adjusters.
Those are really cool! I'd seen a couple of them but didn't know there were that many different ones. I guess everybody wanted part of the action. There were a lot of Fords on the road. If you could sell one to every one thousanths Ford owner you could hardly keep up with production.
This one is a Liberty. This is the one I bought at the swap meet in Centerville. Russ Potter had never seen one so it must be pretty rare. Notice in the second picture the thumb screw for attaching the wire for the internal heater. It is missing the choke shaft and plate.
Here's a VIX humidifier vaporizer accessory.
Here's another VIX "Gas Saver" automatic vapor humidifier. This one is a bit fancier then the pervious one.
Here's an interesting unit that swirels the vapor and looks like it electrically heats cold fuel for starting.
Here's a humidifier accessory that's missing it's glass reservior.
It is difficult to keep up with you guys. Jay you have some amazing artifacts.
I haven't been able to find out much about Swan carbs and manifolds. Swan sued GM, Nash and Chrysler for patent infringements pertaining to the Swan manifold design. In 1934 General Motors was ordered to pay to Swan Carburetor Co. $621,500 in royalties.
Here's a mint set of brass accessory gaskets.These mount on both sides of the intake manifold. The slots are all pitched to spin the mixture into a vortex right at the engine block to intake interface. I really love the great old artwork used on after market Model T accessories!
What a great thread - well done to you all and thanks for sharing.
I think Rob wins for best presented pictures - you must be a photoshop wiz!
Stan - what is the colour you use on your carbs - that goldy colour in your photos. They look great.
Thanks Royce. Great thread.
Yessir!!! That boy Robb do know how to take a picture!!!
Glenn, the goldy color is from buffing with Tripoli and then white rouge on a loose buff. I also do some sanding and wire brushing on the OF's before I buff them out. I bead blast them gently with fine glass bead to start with. The smaller parts go in my vibratory tumbler for a few hours with plastic green pyramid media, then with dry shine for a few more. Then I buff the things like adjuster screws.
Robb, what do you think? Is this "Jay" guy really Jay from the museum? I'm thinking somebody donated a massive, major, mammoth collection to the museum and he's showing it on here. Whatcha think? =)
Nah, I think that Jay's too busy to fool with it.
This is a great thread. I only have a couple left!!
Howdy Stan and All: itís been fun sharing some of our personal collection that relates to after market carbs and related accessories. It would be nice if more people would freely post original literature with photos of rare model T after market stuff in their collections.
Echos of the Elephant Graveyard
Well, there's several Air Friction; at least one Stromberg LF; Several early 5 ball but I don't think they are T; A 4 ball; probably several more I'm missing. Lots of stock T ones in there.
Goodness Rob - that looks almost like a painting or cartoon drawing. I love it!
Whats the one on the top shelf third from left? It looks like 4th from left is the same thing but unpolished.
Top shelf left to right:
Kingston L, Kingston 4-ball, Stromberg LF, Stromberg LF, Stromberg LF, and two Kingston 5-ball (non-T) carbs.
Here are some more:
Here's a Whrilwind Vaporizer mileage saver gadget with three different original flyers.
Here's a brass Vix "Scientific Gas Saver" that bolted up between the carb and intake manifold.
Here's the installation manual for the Montgomery Ward Nu-Power Carburetor.
Here's another Montgomery Ward installation manual. This one is for installing the "Scoe Carburetor for Fords".
Hereís a group of Air Friction Ford Carbs that followed me home from years of swap meet ferreting.
A great thread. I am saving it as a reference. I am printing out the group photo as a poster for my work room.
Here's a slick after market Model T air cleaner setup that I run on "the beater". It has a vane that spins particulates out of the airstream entering the carb.
Jay, nice aircleaner setup. I would guess it to be a United Aircleaner. I have one like this but smaller with angled vanes on the top of the body. Fred Huston has one on his Fronty engine in one of his speedsters. They did work well. Make sure the inner felt at the bearing is kept oiled.
Howdy Ed: Here's the unit with the hot air stove removed. The hot air stove gives a litlle more ridgidity to the sheet metal strap that attachs on the rear manifold clamp. The sheet metal strap is the only thing keeping the air cleaner mated to the carb.
I like your choke string
Howdy Mark: here's the working end of the string. A keyring loup on the headlight post is holding a tiny pulley that the string goes though to the hand pull washer. It works for me!!!
Hasn't this been a great thread?? Lots of neat stuff. I think I have a couple more but I was gone most of yesterday and today. I'll see if I can find anything that hasn't been already posted and add it. Sure wish my pictures looked like Robb's. Might have to work and that. I'm not too much of a photographer.
work ON that. Old and senile. Tired. hmmmmmmmmmm
Here's a old ad for the Toquet carb I posted back toward the start of this thread.
Here's a group of aftermarket carb air stoves. The top unmarked unit is for a rayfield and is cast aluminium. The other three are all cast iron
Pretty amazing stuff Jay. I have a few other carbs that I will photograph but in the mean time I have a couple of photos of the lowly NH.
The first NH, part number 6200, was a plain tube or straight through design which offered good air flow. It had a side drain angular float bowl and long arm throttle linkage. The one pictured below has the wrong choke crank. It should have only a single arm. The threads in the post extended all the way to the bottom to allow for the short nut that attached the float bowl. The very early straight through carbs also used a cork float.
About 1919-1920 Holley sold the tooling for the Model G to Ford and not long after Ford approached Holley for a license to build the NH. A deal was struck that gave Ford the right to produce one NH for each one they purchased from Holley.
Ford never did produce the straight through NH but modified the design to produce a swayback venturi which proved more effective with the poor quality gasoline available at the time. Holley quickly followed suit.
The NH 6200 is easily identified by looking through the throat. It is also interesting to note that the 6200 data plate is upside down compared to later versions. The NH 6200 B introduced the swayback venturi. It can be differentiated from the later 6200 C by the angular protrusion on post. The 6200 C was introduced with a center drain so the post was changed to allow fuel drainage. If I have misinterpreted the history here perhaps someone can correct me.
The straight through breathes better at higher rpm so it gives more top end power. The straight through I run idles smoothly but not quite as slowly as the swayback.
Here's a carb accessory spring in it's original package.
I'm curious about the 6200 "Straight through." You said that the one pictured has the wrong choke crank. It should have a single arm.
I always thought the NH appeared around 1920. Since Ford started putting starter motors on cars in 1919, by 1920 I would expect that all carburetors would have double arm choke cranks.
I have a couple of "straight throughs" and they all have double arm chokes.
Also, is it correct that all 6200 and 6200 B have long throttle and chock linkages, and the 6200 C have short linkages?
You are right about the choke arm. It is likely true that all NHs have a double choke arm. So far as I can tell the short throttle and choke arms were first delivered in late 1925 on the 6200 C.
all these beautiful odd carbs, and I cant even get my L-4 to work right!!!!
Here's another type of bi-metallic mixture adujuster with original instructions and box.
That's why they sold so many accessory carbs. =)
Has anyone tried driving with some type of accessory bi-metallic mixture adujuster?
Did they work any good?
I have been posting original literature here so guys that have some of this stuff can go ahead and try it like the vendor wanted you to set it up. I would be interested in hearing how any of these items work on readers T's.
Here's a Stransky accessory vaporizer with it's original literature.
I love the idea of the auto mix adjuster. How does that Scharoun mixture adjuster sit under the manifold bracket? If it just wedges in, the manifold nut would screw down tight enough on the other side. Does anyone use them? How do they go? Does anyone have one fitted to their car that can post a photo?
Here is one I missed earlier. I thought I'd put it up but hadn't. This is the elusive and sought after Winfield M. I haven't had this one on yet so don't know how it runs. I hope to play with it a little next week. I've had all sorts of computer problems and finally had to take it to the computer hospital and spend money on it to get back to where I could upload pictures.
Here is one more. The thread started with one of these, here are three all done and ready to go to a new home or back to their home.
Does anyone have any experience with the Stromberg RF carb? In equal condition, would the RF be more a racer carb than the reliable OF ? I understand that if the aluminum on the RF is non-corroded, they are an excellent choice.
As requested by Jay in a posted picture above, has any one located any literature on the RF that they can post and add to "the cause".
Kingston 10 ball with water injection on kerosene side
Really a tractor carb that starts on gasoline and switches to kero
Not a Model T accessory but period and fun to see
Let me first say that it would be nice if someone with a Stromberg RF Carb original manual would post it here for other collectors, or email me a copy and I'll post it! Here's the earlier Ford model "LF" stromberg carb manual. It would be nice if other people would share copies of rare model T accessory parts literature they have with other forum watches and active posters.