Help to decipher C111435 block

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Help to decipher C111435 block
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.M.Head on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 10:40 pm:

Cdn block - any ideas on when etc?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 11:28 pm:

From Bruce's book: C 110602 has a casting date 5-24-17, C 112644 was cast 5-17-17 & C 113406 was cast 5-21-17, so perhaps your engine block also has a casting date from late may 1917?
Blocks were cast at Higland Park, shipped to Canada for assembly, where the text "Made in USA" was ground off until Ford Canada started casting their own blocks around #C 230000.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brendan Hoban on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 07:04 am:

I have a Canadian block No. C162018 which is supposed to be 1916.

However, it has a single cover to the valve housing which is 1922.

If anyone can explain this I would be interested.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 09:03 am:

Brendan,

In Bruce McCalley's book "Model T Ford" page 501 he has:

"It was common practice to stamp a replacement (unnumbered) engine with the serial number of the original engine. This, of course accounts for the many engines found today which were, judging from the serial number, built before the casting date."

Sounds like the original owner may have allowed the first engine to run low on oil, or not properly adjust the bearing caps and threw a rod through the block; forgot to drain the water or add antifreeze and the block froze and was cracked beyond economical repair; or for some other reason needed the block replaced. I’m 99% sure cracking from freezing is why the block in my 1915 has a 1916 casting date with a 1915 serial number. The reason I suspect that, is the head has all sorts of welds to cover the cracks in the head. I would guess that it was less expensive to weld the head than replace it and since it was only the water jacket cracked up into the outside of the head rather than down into the combustion chamber it works fine. It is sort of ugly – but it helps tell part of the story of Blackie. Do you have any other signs that the engine or just the block was replaced? I.e. does the later block also have other later block features on the engine such as the starter hogs head and starter ring gear on the flywheel? Or does it appear they just took the parts of the original 1916 engine and used the new parts to replace items that were beyond economical repair?

If you are fortunate enough to have the original Patent ID plate on your Canadian Model T, it will have the engine serial number that was originally in the car. The USA cars did that up until 1911 (see the Oct 6, 1911 Acc. 509 Letter in Bruce’s Book page 551 or the on line encyclopedia). But the Canadian cars continued past 1915. I would suspect the 1916 still did, but if some folks with Canadian cars can confirm that one way or the other that would be great.

I also wonder if the Canadian production introduced the one piece valve cover before, about the same time, or after the USA production switched? Bruce’s book on page 553 states Apr 3 1922 “All production is now one-piece valve door engines.” But for some things the Canadian plant was used as sort of a test bed for new ideas. Such as the slant windshield and one man tops introduced in 1920 in Canada but not until the 1923 year for USA. It would give Ford a chance to try something out on a much smaller production line scale. For example they went through 3 or 4 one man top designs in Canada the first few years. If anyone has some data on when Canada switched to the one piece valve cover please let us know. Fossil data could help here also. If you have a 1921 Canadian serial number (more importantly casting date) please let us know if it is a single or double valve cover engine. Canadian casting dates started using letters on/about 1923. With “A” for 1923, “B” for 1924; “C” for 1925 etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 09:05 am:

Brendan, according to Bruce's book C162018 is supposed to have been cast in march - april 1918.
If your engine has a single valve cover, the obvious explanation is that the original engine was damaged a few years after 1918 & the replacement engine got stamped with the number from the scrapped one (severe freeze cracking would have been common in Canada in the years before glycol was available at affordable prices)


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