Newer Champion X plugs ...... caution

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Newer Champion X plugs ...... caution
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 10:40 pm:

I've noticed on a few of the new mfg. Champion X plugs that the threads are cut flat. Installed, this plug will leak compression gasses.

The threads have to be sharp & deep looking in cross section to seat properly without leakage.

Buyer beware..........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 11:11 pm:

Bob - Overworked and worn out Chinese machine tools ya' think?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 09:31 am:

Harold: Who knows ?? Re-pro looks just like the beaten worn out part it copied ????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 09:39 am:

I was told about ten years ago there was a similar problem with new Champ 25s, so I bought Autolites.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 09:43 am:

Or you can install them with a bit of thread sealant. I use a product called EZ-turn which is a combination sealant / anti seize.

These plugs are made in the USA by Americans on American tooling, so there is no need to unfairly make racist comments about the Chinese. Perhaps if Langs or Chaffins were to complain to the supplier they would be able to fix the issue.

I personally see it as little to care about since I would use anti seize anyway. The plugs almost never need to be removed, being so reliable, that they will rust solidly in place if no such product is applied. Once you install them it might be 15 - 20 years until they need to be removed.

plug


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David_Cockey on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 11:01 am:

I suspect the Champion X plugs are made in batches, probably once every couple of years. Also believe they are made by Champion.

They are available through Champion distributors. The secret is the "stock number" which is 425. Champion plugs are distributed based on a three digit stock number, not the plug part number such as X. A good auto parts store should be able to order them, though you may have to buy a box of 8. Stock number for a Champion 25 is 525. If a store orders stock number 25 plugs they will get a modern plug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 02:06 pm:

I had my local O'Reilley's store order 4 of the new X's for me to look at, just a couple of weeks ago. Two had sharp threads and two had flat ones. As David said above, the stock number is 425 for the brass-topped X's, they're $20 a pop at O'Reilley's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne in Malvern, PA on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 04:10 pm:

Did I read this right - "The plugs almost never need to be removed, being so reliable, that they will rust solidly in place ... Once you install them it might be 15 - 20 years until they need to be removed."

I pull my plugs at least once a year to clean and regap them as part of my normal tune-up process. Admittedly they rarely need any attention to the gap, but they always need a little clean-up, plus it gives me a chance to assess the conditions in that cylinder on a regular basis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave DeYoung on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 04:44 pm:

Warren:

I'm with Royce on this one. The only reason my plugs have been removed was to reuse them in the Ricardo head I installed this year. I am running Motorcraft F11's and I can't even remember when I first bought them, but it has to be 8 or 10 years ago.

If you are careful to adjust your mixture correctly and have the rest of the ignition system up to par, The plugs will perform for a long time without any problems.

I also get my car out and drive, not just putt-putt along. Very low, almost idle type driving and short trips that don't get the motor warmed up are probably the two biggest reasons for fouled plugs.

Dave DeYoung


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 05:39 pm:

As a machinist,working for a company producing products containing many different precision pipe threads(in both NPT and British BSPT & BSPP),I would be interested in seeing a good close up pic of the threads in question.
Bob,you are most correct in saying pipe threads need to have a sharp profile in the root and the crest of the threads.With most pipe threads,the only threads that do any sealing are the first three turns after the lead (or chamfer) of the male thread,and the first three threads of the female thread.Anything after this is an extra bonus.Some of you may have noticed that the Rigid pipe threaders used in various trades never seem to make the same threads made by a round solid die,or pipe threads machined on a Landis or Geometric die head.Compare the same thread on a black pipe fitting to a hydraulic fitting as an example.
With old NPT threads in heads being mostly oversized now,we rely on the threads on the plugs to be as best they can to help with the sealing.
I don't have my machinist's handbooks nearby,but the rule of thumb in our shop is that the minimum thread engagement of two components is three threads turned by hand.This is normal for the natural gas industry,which I am a very small spec in.
Perhaps there is enough "good" threads on the new plugs to do the job?
It's also been some experience to me that the female thread is far more important to be machined correctly than the male thread.Pipe taps never seem to vary with collasping tapping heads,and we use all the machines I mentioned above.We have to test fit all of our assembled products and if there's ever a problem,most of the time it's with the female threads.
Properly machined pipe threads should have a definite sharply defined root and crest.There is actually a very small radius on both the root and crest but it is very small.
I hope some of this useless trivia helps,or at least lends itself to 45 seconds of learning. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 06:22 pm:

Darren -- I don't have a pic handy, but the threads on some of the X's are definitely flat where they should come to a fine point. I installed some like this once using motor oil as a lube, and when I ran the engine bubbles appeared in the puddle of oil around the plugs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 04:22 am:

Royce - I should probably just let this go, but I hafta' say, I did NOT MAKE A RACIST COMMENT about the Chinese!

As I understand it (and have been told by sales personnel in a well know big chain hardware store) most of the fastners that we purchase in hardware stores nowdays is not U.S. made. Because so much of what we buy IS made in China, I made the assumption that perhaps spark plugs might be made there too. An awful lot of the wood screws, machine screws, etc. that we all buy are foreign made, and I'm sure you'll agree that quite often, if you pick up a handful of screws or bolts out of a bin at the hardware store and look closely at several of them, you'll notice quite a variation in the quality of the threads. In fact, some of them are so damned poor that I actually put 'em back and pick out screws with more completely formed threads. I've seen some with practically no thread at all! This is usually due to the fact that machine tools at the factory eventually wear out. There comes a time when the screw thread tooling has to be replaced, and obviously, sometimes the replacing should have been done a little sooner. And some of these machines are in factorys in China. And I just thought that perhaps the Champion X plugs that Bob mentioned (even an old and familier American brand name like Champion) might be made in a plant in China! As you know, many old, familier and well thought of American brand names ARE made in China. And that perhaps this might be the reason for the appearance of the threads on the Champion X plugs that Bob mentioned.

And I guess if you are of a mentality that you want to read "RACIST" into that Royce, you can. But I'll bet nobody else did!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 08:38 am:

The Mexican food I had last night was too greasy and gave me Montezuma's revenge...I guess that statement makes me a racist too?

I had a machine shop do a very poor cylinder boring job a few years ago and the Italian machinist made no apologies even though he admitted the cylinders ended up with too much runout due to the fact his machine was giving problems. Does that make me a racist?

Oh, our future president/Messiah wants the US to be a socialist nation. I guess that makes me a racist?

Have we gone so far to the left that we now cannot complain about a product's quality (or a person's warped political ideas) if that person is of a different race?

C'mon Royce (with all due respect to you, my friend), a comment about the quality of materials and workmanship doesn't fall under "racist", at least not in this part of the country (and I'm not far from you). It is well-known (and apparently accepted by bargain-hunting consumers) that Chinese steel and quality of workmanship is less than most of us would like it to be. So far I've not had anything made in China that I would say is well-made, and I don't think I will. Their quality control is either non-existent or they have very low standards. Even if their processes were top-notch, the materials they use are so inferior its pathetic. Does that opinion mean that I dislike the people of China? Absolutely not! They get up and go to work every morning just like we do hoping for a better life...just like we do. They live under a government out of control, just like we do.

Think about how ridiculous it sounds to imply a fella is racist because he thinks a product is sub-standard. We need a term to label folks who label everyone else as a racist. That word is extremely overused, abused, and should be banned and buried. Yeah...bury the "R" word! :-)
Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 09:13 am:

Ray,

It is unfairly racist to say that something is crappy just because it is made by Chinese, or blacks, or whites, or Indians. Or Americans. The somewhat substandard plugs being discussed were made in the USA. Undoubtedly they could be made better and cheaper in China.

I've been to factories in China and can tell you from first hand experience that if the part is made wrong it is not the fault of the ethnicity of the Chinese worker. If you get a crappy (whatever) that is made in China it is typically because a part was made to a price determined by Cheap Charlie, the American businessman who specified how that part was to be made based on what he was willing to pay.

The Chinese factories can and do make some of the highest quality goods in the world given proper engineering and facilities. You underestimate them Ray.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 09:28 am:

When the facts are against you, yell Racist.

Socialism on Sterioids is what we've suffered in the last six weeks as the Wall Street and Washington crime family bails itself out. This has been the largest transfer of wealth from the many to the few in the history of modern civilization. Our next president will not be able to fix that.

Fact: Obama is the organizer and leader of a juggernaut presidential campaign.

McCain's campaign is on the ropes - again. What does that tell you about his ability as a leader?

I'm voting third party, whoever that is.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 09:28 am:

" ... the materials they use are so inferior its pathetic."

I disagree. The Chinese can and do purchase the same materials to produce components as we do. When a component drawing states under "material" in the notes section, AISI 4340 steel, for example, that is exactly what they use best I can tell in my dealings with them. In other words, whatever it is that they used, PERFORMS like 4340.

Like all good component manufacturers, they spend a lot of time up front analyzing the component drawings and asking lots of questions if some information might be either unclear or simply not there. They also suggest alternatives to design that might be more convenient in their manufacturing processes. They strive to produce components to-print, just like the Japanese and Taiwanese manufacturers that I have dealt with.

Shoddy components from China are usually the result of poor communications, meaning poor drawings that do not totally define the requirements of the part. This can be blamed on nothing but the laziness of the engineering group requesting the part.

That's been my experience with working with the Chinese, so that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Nothing racist or political about it.

Seth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles W. Little on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 09:36 am:

My .02: if one reads Harold's original comment, he said " worn out Chinese machine tools"- he did not comment on the chinese people. Perhaps the tools are in the Champion factory being run by USA union labor?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 10:03 am:

Absolutely right Ralph. Obama has been unfairly yelling racist from day one if anyone questions his lack of experience, lack of judgement, and lack of any credibility. That's what Bill Clinton said. Obama has teams of puppeteers orchestrating his every move. He recites carefully scripted lines that, if examined, show that he is promising anything to get elected. Clearly he is ducking his past and not telling the truth on any issues.


Harold's characterization of the tools as being Chinese is based on neither fact nor substance. If the parts are bad it is because management at Champion is not doing their job, not because of any Chinese or American worker or tool being at fault.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 10:30 am:

Ray & Royce,

Remember when Japanese products were shunned because of quality, guess what. I don't think racism is intended, it's not the people it's the companies, who like Royce says are only going by our specs.

Best mechanic I ever had was Cambodian, a boat person, worked out of an old former Texaco station, one time for 10 bucks worked an hour so I'd pass a smog test. He was good enough that he moved to Newport Beach, opened a shop working on Roll's, Mercedes & other high end cars.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave_Sosnoski on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 11:08 am:

I was not aware of the deformed threads on Champion X plugs. I have seen them on the Champion 25's. From my unscientific study, the Champion 25's with the silver base seem to have bad threads and the ones with the black bases seem to have good threads. I seem to remember noticing that the ones with good threads were made in Taiwan or someplace like that while those with the bad threads were made here in the US.

The problem on the ones I've seen are that the threads are not cut deep enough. This results in the taper of the threads not meeting at a point, but also means that the width of the thread is wider than it should. I personally would not use any plug that had the blunt threads as I would be concerned that it may cause damage to the threads in the head.

I know that Lang's is aware of the problem with the Champion 25's and inspects the plugs it receives. Any with bad threads are returned to the supplier. I don't know if they were aware that the problem extended to the X plugs as well, but they probably do by now.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 12:27 pm:

Dave,

Bingo! If the part you get from any source is not up to your quality standards then make them refund your money or replace the part with one that is good. We the consumers are the final inspectors. If we quit accepting crappy stuff the problem will get fixed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth Harbuck on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 05:19 pm:

The Autolite plugs I put in my Mini and the Autolite plugs I put in a friend's Mach I were up to my standards. Both sets were made in China.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 05:16 am:

Royce and Alex, I agree. What I meant was its not racist to complain about a part. I agree that it would be racist to do so because of the group of people who made it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 06:54 am:

I got outbid again on some 1922 or earlier X plugs yesterday. I win about 1 out of ten auctions. Somebody got a great deal. Take a look:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250311283053& ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By rattletrap on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 08:13 am:

My apologies for the size of the photo. It was on purpose in an attempt to show the enlargement of the threads. I just bought & received a set of Champion X’s. The full set of plugs had threads like this. Instead of the threads coming to a point each thread comes to a DOUBLE-Point rather than a single well-defined single point. It’s like the threading machine needed to be calibrated.Double pointed threads


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 09:42 am:

These threads are most likely rolled and not cut. This, theoretically, would produce the best thread and produce it in production quantities. The problem is that the blank was too small and the thread rolling machine did not have enough material with which to form a full thread. I blame the blank size because nobody has yet stated that the threads are oversize, (i.e. not formed deep enough), and cannot be started in the plug hole. So, the thread size is correct but the thread is malformed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 07:29 pm:

The poor quality most people perceive about Chinese goods has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the workers. It is based on experience. Go to a Harbour Freight store and take a look around. The vast majority of that stuff is pure CRAP. What about the dog food that was killing dogs? Seems like there were even some food or drugs for human consumption that were recalled. What about the toys with lead in them?

I once worked for a company that imported a lot of parts from China for their product. On one project I was involved in, the first SEVERAL iterations failed our first article inspection. Once they were finally able to give us parts that were dimensionally correct, they failed in testing because they were using the wrong material, or at least exceeding the maximum allowable recycled content. Finally, they got us some acceptable parts and they were integrateded into the product line. Not long after, we began seeing field failures. Guess what? They were sending us all the ones that had been made back during the first article and testing phase that had been rejected. All to save a few cents over the cost of the (Supposedly) identical American made part that had been serving us well.

Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. You see much of this kind of thing, you get a bad taste in your mouth. I don't care if the stuff was coming from Mars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 08:26 pm:

"The poor quality most people perceive about Chinese goods has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the workers."

Thanks Hal for saying it that way. That was exactly (however long-winded) the point I was trying to make, and therefore complaining about the quality cannot be interpreted as "racist".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 09:06 pm:

It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the Chinese managers either. There is nothing inherently bad about Chinese people. Or any people.

As seen above, American made Champion plugs have issues, and it is not because they are American.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 09:18 pm:

I'm sorry and it is that time of the year for me to get speed slapped by others on this forum.

It has nothing to do with China, or USA, or Republic of the Congo...it is simply good business or bad business and all countries have their good and bad.

Any reputable Chinese company today meets or actually exceeds USA material specs; Any reputable Chinese company today is ISO certified using the exact same consultants and underwriters that did Detroit when there was business there in Detroit; Any reputable Chinese company has also said loudly that 6 Sigma is a pure load of 'crap' and adopted FoMoCo 8-D as their current operating philoshy for Quality. Any reputable Chinese company today does not have a real clue about USA thread series and out of safety of supply concerns buys their tooling direct from USA or a Shanghai importer of USA goods.

Yes, there is 'Wal-mart' crap that comes from China, but it would be the same anywhere Wal-mart goes in the world. Yes, there is Harbor Freight crap too. Wal-mart and Harbor simply says to ANY prospective supplier, 'We'll give you 62-1/2 cents each for these. We'll buy 20 million of them at one time" and guess what? Wal-mart gets what it paid for in terms of materials and quality.

As far as the lead paint? Well guess what? Chinese have so far said they find no correlation of lead paint to defects in humans [True, they do not have industry lobbyist yet :-)]. Their country, their way of looking at it, their solution. [maybe I'm crazy now because I was a child of the 50's and surely had lead paint exposure, and I most certainly chewed on yellow cedar pencils day in and day out until ballpoints came along :-)] The Chinese will paint with lead free/VOC free paints if requested in a contract...but...did you ever hear the truth about the Mattel fiasco? The contract simple said 'to be painted RAL # ____", no actual paint specification was supplied by Mattel. When the USA issued the challenge, the factory shut itself down as an immediate quality measure, laid off the folks until it resolved, and the President of Mattel came to China to 'apologize' to the workers for their hardship and stated Mattel would be more thorough in specification writing in the future. Didn't read that in the local newspaper now did you, eh?

My play on the whole thing is American industry was built on 'gray haired knowledge' and the workers learned knowledge, and most American companies do not have a clue administratively or executive wise on what it took to really build a product that was consistantly 'right'. They now take this product offshore to save a buck and yet make a buck...and in many cases they get but 80% product because they in fact only know how to specify to the 80% level. The other 20% was never 'written down'.

OK...soapbox over....at least I used a FoMoCo reference in the reply.

Wake up America, quit **tching, quit buying from the crap suppliers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 09:52 pm:

I used teflon tape to seal the plugs and it works great. I used about 3 wraps.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 10:52 pm:

Thanks, George.

But, c'mon, lead in lead pencils? Or did you mean lead in the yellow paint?

The problem I have is stuff that looks good, but is often useless, or fails real soon. It seems like I'm buying a new coffee maker or toilet seat every couple of months. Nice looking, but shoddy products sold at much lower price chase out the medium and high quality products, and soon we have no choice but to buy shoddy.

What Communist China and other third world countries lack is real tort law and lawyers free to practice. US manufacturers are always looking over their shoulders, aware that shoddy products will likely cost more in lawsuits than cutting corners. The lawyers in Commie China were recently told to lay off suing the milk producers who poisoned thousands of babies with melamine doctored milk, and killed hundreds more. Melamine, which mimics protein in testing, causes severe kidney damage.

Yes, the same melamine that was in pet food ingredients exported to the US.

Then there the Heparin that has sickened and killed many hospital patients. Baxter Labs from Wisconsin saved some money getting the ingredients from an uncontrolled pig farm in China. We're talking $1,000 per dose medicines here, and they saved a few dollars. Baxter's lawyers took a gamble that the lawsuits would cost them less than the savings on ingredients.

Our pharmacist is a valuable old friend. He says all the generics come from over there, mostly without a US company in the middle. That means you have no legal recourse if you're poisoned. You gonna' sue Communist China?

Again, we need 100% inspection of all imports, paid by the importers.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 11:22 pm:

RDR...

Sorry, I meant that thick old USA applied yellow paint and not the insides...still remember the taste of it and the cedar beneath...lol

I have no problem with 100% inspection of incoming goods into USA. You all may or may not know that there are in fact independent global 3rd party inspection agencies already set up in China. These guys are tough as nails on rejects or marginal goods. Our own T vendors could use them if they so desired. I use one on everything I ship into USA and Canada. I pay for it in China and include it in a 'cost of sale' ledger as part of my standard cost of product. Adds about 3-4% to the value of a container load of goods. Keeps the Chinese square, keeps me square, before the stuff ever even leaves China! Can I sell as 'cheap' as the next guy? Maybe not, but my stuff I know will be good and reputation has always been more important to me than a buck.

When I had the American company I wasn't the cheapest boy on the block either, but an amazing thing happened, for 25 years I had the largest market share among any of my competitors! Go figure on price, eh? Then the Germans started playing with the exchange rate before the change to the Euro and no one in capital goods could touch their imports pricing by a mile...oh well...my turn to get even with the Germans :-)

Good business should survive and prosper, no matter where it is located in the world and if the American MBA phenom ever clears and goes back to reality we may see improvement in American sustainability! Conversely, shaky business where all anyone can think about is selling at the lowest possible price to assure volume and STILL making a healthy margin without responsibility has no reason to be in business! Nuf said on that one :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 11:52 pm:

Sorry if I get gassy sometimes...sorry if I sound like I defend those 'offshore folks' no matter who it happens to be.

The emotion comes from what I fear is an American view of that now leads to isolationism...where no one will open eyes until too late! Isolationism has never worked to broden an ecomony, it ultimately fails in all cases!!!!!

Open eyes, gripe about shoddy stuff all you want, simply DO NOT buy it at retail, it WILL go away. But don't let the need for 'good stuff' go away and the jobs along with it. China, like Japan before it, didn't know what 'good stuff' was....but hey gang...they learn exponentially! Eyes need to be opened before it is too late.

To answer something along the lines of what Seth said earlier, China has gotten alot smarter in the last couple of years and will continue to get even smarter. As a nation of workers they want to 'do right' too. Buy from one of the 'reputable companies' now? The following chart shows what you WILL get if you order basic plain steel...these guys are serious!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:37 pm:

George:

Thanks for the information. Is Vanadium steel being produced in China ? Between those who research the records at Ford Archives and those who seek better overseas mfg. facilities there may be hope for better re-pro T parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 02:05 pm:

Bob,

Not sure about the Vanadium Steel being changed to a 'new' standard 'Chinese' grade yet. I have the Ford Vanadium Steel Handbook for chemistry and properties and I will pose the question you ask to my foundry people and will post their response.

I know we do not pour V-steel in our own foundry,highest we go is 4130 ourselves for standard use. But the boys may know who does or may :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig L on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 10:49 pm:

I stopped using Champions years ago because of leakage at the threads and constant engine missing at different times, being traced backed to the Champion plugs with hardly any miles on them. Switched to Motorcrafts and never had another plug problem. Have run the current ones on numerous National tours plus all my other driving and have never touched them since the were first installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 04:36 pm:

I want a set of X's, but haven't been willing to part with the money yet. The $20 figure did catch my attention. I've not checked with my local O'Really, yet, but I did ask my NAPA man to look them up under the 425 part number. He can get them but said he has to order 10. He said list price was $29, but he said he could do better. Unfortunately, I'm not in the market for 10 so I didn't have him order them. I will check with O'Really and see if they will order just the 4. $20 is the best price I've seen on these. For the time being, I will continue to run the Autolites. I know some have had probelms with them, but they seem to run fine in mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard Tobias on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 04:57 pm:

I always thought that there was a washer that provided the seal when the plug was screwed into the head. Are these plugs different because they are a pipe thread? Would the grey pipe dope that comes in the tube from the plumber supply work to seal these plugs?
Howard


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 07:39 pm:

Howard,

Model A's had the washers, I think the idea someone had earlier about using Teflon tape would probably be better than the dope.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darren J Wallace on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 05:02 pm:

Pipe threads of any sort should never be tightened dry.If you don't want to put pipe dope on the threads or teflon tape,for fear of whatever it may do loose in the combustion chamber,put some oil on the threads. The last thing you want to do to your head's threads is to gall them up.


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