I just brought home the newly purchased '14 Touring. This data plate is under the front seat on top of the riser. VIN of engine is Jan.1914, perhaps this plate indicates an assembly date for the car?

Jeff,

It is the assembly date for the body, which Ford purchased from an outside vendor. The car would of course have to have been assembled some time later than the April 1914 date indicated by your body plate.

Would this body have been #88029 produced by this particular builder? How can I tell the vendor? Thank You!!

Jeff,

Here are some links to this subject.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/60413.html
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/60294.html

Paul

Hi Jeff - You may very likely be able to find out who "this particular builder" is by looking at the heel panels for both the front and rear seats. There is a raised ridge on the heel panel in a T pattern. The vertical leg of the "T" shape is vertically on the center of the panel and the top of the "T" shape runs horizonitally about 1" below the seat cushion. Just above the top portion of this "T" and the vertical leg of the "T", you may find a capitol letter, like a "B" for Beaudette, or a "W" for Wilson, etc. denoting who the body builder was.

I also have a '14 Touring. Mine has a Beaudette body and the body tag looks exactly like yours and reads 4 14 88775. My guess is that yours is a Beaudette body also and it may likely be that our bodies were built quite close to each other. The story on my car is that it came from Iowa, not that far from you in Minnesota.

My engine # is 500xxx and was built on April 22, 1914. The fact that yours is a January, 1914 engine, 3 months earlier that the April body, is not unusual for T's as the engines were often stored and not used in production for extended periods of time.

Please look at the heel panels on your body and see if there is the body builders initial. It will be very interesting to see if yours is also a Beaudette and confirm my suspicions.

Hap Tucker is compiling information on T bodies with the hope that someday more complete information on the bodies, their manufacturers, and variations between the bodies can be gleaned.

Thanks very much for your help on this, Jeff.

Fordially, Keith Gumbinger

I didn't see Paul's post above when I wrote & posted at 1:42. This is great information and will really help complete Hap's files.

Keith

Jeff,

That is your body number. Based on it's appearance, I'll bet that you'll find a B on the seat riser just as Keith mentioned. My well-documented '14 Touring, originall sold in Luck, WI. has the same tag, a few thousand digits off. My car has an engine block casting date of 1/16/14 and a 477,5XX serial number indicating an engine assembly date in mid Mar of '14.

Based on conversations that I've had with local experts on operations at the Minneapolis Assembly plant, I'd surmise that all three of our cars came out of Minneapolis in a relatively close time frame. As I understand it, in '14, Ford was building the engines and many sub-asseblies,(or even complete chassis, which would then be knocked down for shipping) in Dearborn then, shipping them out to assembly plants like Minneapolis for final assembly. I've been told that the bodies, made by outside suppliers, were often drop-shipped at the assmebly plants.

Either way, you, Keith and I ought to compare notes on our cars for other features that may also be every similar.

Oops! I too, failed to check Paul's links before I opened my yapper.

What a great day! Looking at the forum and someone has posted a body manufacture number with a very legible photo! And then four folks take the time to explain what the numbers mean and where to look for a letter on the front seat and/or rear seat heel panel. And yes, I also think there is a very good chance it will be a “B” based on the body tag. Ok, it isn’t as good as discovering a two lever Model T in the barn down the road but for anyone that has been looking for body numbers – this is a great opportunity to do some comparisons.

And if Jeff’s body is also a Beaudett – those three bodies were all produced in Apr 1914 by the same body maker. Yes – Jeff please let us know what letter (if any) or that there is not a letter—on your front and/or rear seat heel panel. And Yes – please compare notes, photos, etc. And if possible would you please “cc” me on the information also? And I’m sure some would like to see things posted on the forum as you sort through what is the same, similar, and different between the three cars.

From Bruce’s on-line encyclopedia at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/A-B.htm we have the information shown in the table below on Beaudett body production. Note it is by calendar year and NOT by model year so the number of 1914 bodies produced would actually span calendar year 1913, 1914, and early potentially early 1915 for the touring bodies. I have not read which company or companies first started producing the 1915 model year bodies with the metal cowl. If it was like many other transitions at Ford – the supplier may have also produced 1915 and 1914 style bodies for a short period of time. If anyone has additional information on that – please let us know.
Bodies made by O.J. Beaudett for Ford
(calendar years)

1909-1912 unknown
1913.... 53,794
1914... 101,369
1915... 170,027
1916... 277,621
1917... 361,292
1918... 113,298
1919... 293,067
1920... 290,381
1921... 230,434
1922... 109,913 (until July 20)
(Ford’s literature referred to this company as “Pontiac.” The O.J. Beaudett company was located in Pontiac, Michigan. Beaudett sold out to the Fisher Body Company. in 1922.)

The body tag below is from Leon Parker’s 1914 and is a May 1914 Beaudett body.



If we simply subtract the 98,569 from the total 1914 production of 101,369 we have 2800 bodies remaining for Jun – Dec 1914. So I suspect the trailing numbers are not simply a consecutive listing for the year. But I do NOT know what their significance is. Many suppliers used their own serial numbers to keep track of how many “widgets” were produced for billing purposes (for example Dodge Brothers when they were producing the early two cylinder engines for Ford back in 1903-1905). And if my memory is working tonight -- in the case of John Regan’s 1912 Pie Wagon (Delivery Car) which is also a Beaudett body – the body number on it is larger than the total Delivery Car production. So we still have more to discover about the numbers.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.

Yes! – Jeff’s 1914 is also a Beaudett! Jeff sent me an e-mail saying there is a "B" on the front seat heel panel. I am really looking forward to finding out more about these there Apr 1914 Beaudett bodied Model Ts.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. The history behind the cars sure brings them to life.

Yeah! I think we will also have another Apr 1914 touring to compare with. Lance Sorenson sent me a note about his Wilson bodied 1914 Model T and its body number looks like it is also an Apr 1914. I've asked him to confirm that just in case I am hearing what I want to hear rather than what he really said.

Ok -- any other roadster or tourings near that time frame with a body number?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.

Hap,

It has been a few months since you asked for info on the bodies. Do you have any more information on "Hayes" and/or "Herbert" bodies as supplied to Ford?

Paul

Paul,

No, I haven't found any additional details on how to tell a Herbert from a Hayes produced body. And what I probably need to do is put an appeal in writing in the "Vintage Ford." Many of our older members with a wealth of information as well as some really nice cars don't visit the forum or other computer locations. I know when my Dad was still alive his version of e-mail was to have Mom print it out and he would read it at the table with his coffee and news paper.

We know of a documented 1914 Fisher body. It was kept by the original owner for years and when it was sold the original owner had kept the shipping tags. Two of those tags were clearly marked "Fisher" and are still with the car. If we found one "H" body that was documented as a specific brand by the shipping tags or some other method, that should allow us to know that the other style "H" body was the other brand. And of course one of the old timers may say, "What, don't you know to look there? See that? That answers your question doesn't it?"

As always thanks to everyone for contributing the pieces to the puzzle that they have. I have a lot more puzzle pieces now than just a few years ago. And I know many of us can spot a body manufacture number a lot easier today than just five years ago. And of course the numbers were there before, but most of us didn't notice them. I know for years I used to put my foot on the body manufacture number when I rode as a kid with my Dad in our 1918 -- we didn't know it was there.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.

Reading this thread got me curious so I checked my 14. Engine build date 10-24-13 #on engine & body tag on firewall 361466 #0n body ft seat rail 61489742 and it has a "B" stamped into the sheetmetal front seat riser.
So when was my car built???? It was sold new in Paso Robles calif

Bill