Can clutch fingers be adjusted successfully in car ?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Can clutch fingers be adjusted successfully in car ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 06:42 pm:

I was reading a post a week or so ago in similar context to this question , but can the clutch fingers be adjusted well in car, and still work as well, l also have heard that ting , ting , ting sound in the past couple of days in low gear only, it doesn't do it in high.
Merry christmas to y'all
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 07:19 pm:

David,

Yes, the high speed clutch can be easily adjusted see:
http://mtfca.com/books/21manual.htm
Which has Question “How is the Clutch Adjusted” and additional photos:

How is the Clutch adjusted? Answer No. 73
Remove the plate on the transmission cover under the floor   boards at the driver's feet. Take out the cotter key on the first clutch finger and give the set screw one-half to one complete turn to the right with a screw-driver. Do the same to the other finger set screws. But be sure to give each the same number of turns and don't forget to replace the cotter key. And after a considerable period of service the wear in the clutch may be taken up by installing another pair of clutch discs, rather than by turning the adjusting screws in too far.
CAUTION---Let us warn you against placing any small   tools or objects over or in the transmission case without a good wire or cord attached to them. Otherwise if they are dropped into the transmission case it is almost impossible to recover them without taking off the transmission cover.

However, I don’t recall reading the posting on the car making a “… ting , ting , ting sound in the past couple of days in low gear only.” The above adjustment of the high speed clutch should help with a high speed clutch that is slipping when you go from low to high or when you pull down the gas lever and you are in high already. Please share the link to the other posting so – it may or may not have some additional information related to your situation. Maybe that was the one about the clutch fingers already being turned in as far as they could go?

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 07:48 pm:

I replaced the clutch rivets in the cross arm with 1/4 roll pins. On one tour I too ,had a clicking sound at idle. I opened up trans.cover and found one roll pin had backed out (forward) and was causing the noise. I tapped it back in place and later ,at home ,I safty wired it so it couldn't happen again. Since then I routinely safty wire all of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 09:57 pm:

David-
IF you adjust the clutch fingers (I'm not saying that will solve the problem, I'm just saying IF that's what you decide to do), run some dental floss thru the cotter pins first and tie it so they won't slip out into the transmission case (don't ask me how I know!).
Secondly, either bend a small screw driver into a 90 degree bend for better access to the set screws or, better yet, duct tape the proper screw driver head to a small ratchet wrench (again, don't ask me how I know to duct tape the head!). Like Hap said above, it's fairly easy, faster, and simple to do in the car, but tie off every thing that may drop into the casing with dental floss or duct tape, because if you don't, it WILL slip and drop into the casing. And then you're looking at a much bigger job.
A small turn makes a big adjustment. . .try a 1/2 turn first, and do the same on all 3. Good luck!

Having said all of that, if looseness of the fingers is the problem, you should be having difficulty shifting into high (slipping, not going into high, etc). Like on the other thread, if high is working fine while driving and shifting, I don't think finger adjustment is going to solve your problem. Refer to Jack's remarks above.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 10:49 pm:

Bob: Why not just use an offset screwdriver?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Thursday, December 25, 2008 - 11:03 pm:

Hey guys,that's another reason they put a hand crank on the front of the engine. Just roll it over till screw is on top of tranny and use a straight screwdriver. I like a long one best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 09:25 am:

David,

All of the above, I also pack the trans with rags. Chock the wheels, jack up one rear wheel put the hand lever forward & then crank to bring the finger to the top, also take the key out of the switch, it's a straight drop down. I use an 18" screwdriver.

I agree with Hap, if you're getting a noise in low adjusting the fingers won't help, something else is going on.

Alex


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Alongi on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 09:28 am:

Here's the past thread from Bob Walden.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/76553.html?1230090494


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marshall V. Daut on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 10:52 am:

I'm not so sure about packing the tranny with rags to do this job, unless you removed them each time you hand-cranked the engine to align the fingers for tightening. Otherwise, as the engine is turned, the tranny will grab those rags and drag them under. They might come loose in the oil and stay in the crankcase. At the very least they'll come back around all soaked in oil, lessening their effectiveness to stop anything that drops along the sides of the drums or in back. With the exception of removing old cotter pins and then re-inserting new ones (it's easier with new, straight-tipped ones!), there's not much that can drop into the transmission during this job anyway. It's only common sense to remove the ignition keys first, as already suggested, because they WILL fall when your head bumps them. Unless you plan on dropping the large screwdriver into the crankcase (use a long shank crewdriver and this won't be a problem), it might not be necessary to pack rags along side of the transmission or in the back. Use the suggested wire or string through the cotter pin head trick and you'll be safe there. What else can fall inside, unlike when changing bands, where EVERYTHING can drop into the crankcase? But if you do decide to pack rags inside for your first attempt at adjusting the clutch fingers, be SURE to remove them each time you handcrank the engine! Rags have a nasty habit of locking up engines or causing internal oiling problems! I'd rather drop a small cotter pin inside than a rag, if one or the other had to happen. The fallen cotter pin may or may not get picked up by the flywheel magnets, but that's still better than a rag inside the crankcase!
Marshall


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce Peterson on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 11:13 am:

Tie dental floss through the end of each cotter pin. No rags needed. Put the ignition key in your pocket before removing the transmission access cover.

c


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 02:25 pm:

Hi Larry and Jack-
I'm a retired dentist with access to lots of dental floss. . .I've learned to tie down lots of potentially loose stuff with floss to prevent problems, both in people and Model T's <g>!
Secondly, I did turn the crank over but since I'm used to working in small places, I worked with what I had. I was just trying to help someone from making the same mistakes I did the first time without the proper tools who thought they would do it anyway! Easier for me to do an accurate half turn with a rachet handle than a long scredriver, which didn't seem to line up well with my set screws anyway and slipped out. Thanks for the correction. Hope you all have a Happy New Year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel Denis Chicoine, MD on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 08:22 pm:

I had a tick-tick-tick in my 23 last year,(or was it the year before?). one of the hogsrings that was acting like a cotter pin in the fingers had come out. The screw had backed out and was ticking against another tranny part each revolution. I screwed it in to where it seemed the same as the others and replaced the hogs rings with cotter pins.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis M. Haworth on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 09:32 pm:

Jack
I have removed the petal shafts from my hogshead for cleaning and to add o-rings for oil control. I am looking for a replacement for the hard to remove rivets. Do you recommend using the roll-pins?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 11:05 pm:

Not in that location. I'd put rivets back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Friday, December 26, 2008 - 11:50 pm:

The dental floss is a great idea...
For adjustment I use a nut which is 13/16 inch across and a 2" length of wood, tied together with a length of string. That way I can estimate the clearence between the plate and fingers and the length of the spring and the whle mess won't get lost in the transmission. I've even done this when the engine is hot on the roadside for a friend on a local tour...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Brown on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 12:24 am:

Were brass cotter pins used originally on the finger adjusting bolts? Also was brass wire used internally on all the bolts with drilled heads. I have run into this on some engines I have torn down. Is steel wire and cotter pins acceptable?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jack daron-Indy. on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 12:37 am:

Brass cotters were used on the radiator studs and lights of the early brass cars. I have found copper and brass inside differentials, only steel or safty wire in trannies. I'd stick with the SS safty wire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare on Saturday, December 27, 2008 - 07:33 am:

Thanks for all of that detail , l'll rip off the top tommorrow and have a light screw, so to speak.
Cheers David


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