In Car Magnet Recharge - Not Working!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: In Car Magnet Recharge - Not Working!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeremy Locke on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 01:29 am:

After doing a lot of research to recharge my magneto magnets in the car, I can't seem to get the compass to point north. So i was thinking it was the compass I bought a new one. Same thing no north - it always points to south to south west. I turned over the engine very slowly by the crank, a 1/4" or less. The compass does move just not to north. With the two compasses I placed them on either side the mag post so I should have seen one north and one south.Not the case either. I thought I was following the compass placement directions but I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

The magneto spits out 1.5 volts at high RPM, with the light bulb inline between the meter. I don't know what to do. I am not ready for a engine rebuild. But I would like the run the engine with a bit more power than the 6 volts. Getting very frustrated. Is there another way to find the correct position of the magnets?

I am in Upland, California - Just north of Ontario. Any one around who might be able to help me?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 02:12 am:

I've never had any success without removing the hogs head. Once the HH is off, everything seems to work as advertized.
One point not often mentioned is that the magnetism is retained by several application of current rather than one long application. It also stops the magentising coils from getting too hot. I usually use 12v external coils acting directly on the flywheel magnets. Ask if you need more details...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A.Boer on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 09:45 am:

Hi Jeremy ;
We have good results with recharging the magnets in the car,We [ the Dutch model T register ]
Put the compas on the following position:
The center of the compas 1.5 inch to the left
The OD of the compas needle 1.5 inch to the back
both in relation to the magneto post
We do not charge the magnets with batteries
but a member of our register made a equipment
with capacitors and the results are 35 AC volts
Greetings and all the best for 2009
Toon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 10:22 am:

Jeremy,
A compass will not point directly north at every location on earth. The magnetic poles on the planet are not aligned with the geographic poles. The magnetic pole is located somewhere in eastern Canada It's entirely possible that if you live somewhere like Greenland it might point a different direction. Don't know much about the location of the poles in the southern hemisphere. In upland California the compass would point slightly northeast. Take the compass outside away from anything magnetic and it should point slightly northeast. If you have the rear wheels jacked up and the brake lever forward, with the magnets lined up as the instructions describe, when you apply the current, the flywheel should automatically move to line up more correctly with the poles. Several short bursts of battery, will magnetize it. If the gap is too great between the magnets and the coils, your magneto will not work even if you recharge the magnets.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 10:49 am:

Tony Bowker is very good at Model T's. Believe what he says! It's a hard job to remove the hogs head but not nearly as hard as it is to remove the engine. You can also check the clearance between the magnets and coils with the hogs head removed. If you want to check for endplay in the crankshaft, do as follows. pull the parking brake all the way back, and then push it all the way forward. When you pull it back it will move the crankshaft and flywheel away from the coils. When you move the lever forward the crankshaft will stay back, but will not be held in that position by the clutch spring. Now with the lever forward use a long screwdriver and try to pry against the pulley and the engine in front. Try to move the pulley forward, not too hard so you don't break anything, but if the crankshaft moves forward you have endplay. It should not be more than .004 inches in a new or rebuilt engine. The clearance between the magnets and the coils should be .025. The maximum clearance from coils to magnets .040. You cannot know the actual distance between coil and magnets without removing the hogs head, but if you have a lot of endplay in the crankshaft, you can save yourself the trouble of removing the hogs head until you are ready to pull the engine and correct the end play.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeremy Locke on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 03:37 pm:

How much force should be used to check the endplay. I put a large flat screwdriver between the engine and pulley - no movement. I didn't pry very hard to force movement but I think I pulled hard enough to move something if anything was going to move.

If I decide to remove the hogs head, are there how to instructions for a recharge somewhere?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Bishop on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 03:55 pm:

Jeremy-
I sent you an e-mail with my experiences and suggestions (from a former Claremont resident! I'm down in San Diego with Tony and Norm now. Happy New Year's guys!). Good luck,

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim in Indiana on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 04:23 pm:

I have had trouble with getting the compass to point to the north pole of the magnets on '26-'27 engines.Acts just like Jeremy says.If you do get it to point toward the north pole,it only stays for an instant then the compass swings wildly.Just for fun I use a WWI surplus compass dated 1918.I take the HH off of these.This is not just a one time thing.Many times over the last 25+ years of fiddling with Ts.What year is your engine,Jeremy?Anyone else notice this or is it just me as usual when something weird happens?Suppose it has something to do with the heavier HH and different post?Happy New Year,everyone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeremy Locke on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 04:55 pm:

its a 27 Fordor. So I suppose its a heavier HH compared to some of the earlier years. Original engine and transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 06:28 pm:

Jeremy:

Did you have the speed lever full foreward ??? This places the flywheel a bit closer to the mag ring. Jack up rear drivers side wheel to help set flywheel position. With proper compass placement & very slow movement of the flywheel you should be able to set for due north on the compass.

If recharged with opposite pole of the magnet in position, you would be trying to reverse the magnet polarity............ resulting in a very weak magneto output at speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 09:28 pm:

Jeremy,
There are instructions in the booklet published by the club "Electrical System" You need to make or borrow a tool which you connect to a 12 volt battery to charge each magnet individually. There is a picture of the tool and instructions on how to make it in the book. Probably someone in your local club has the tool. I borrowed one from Tony Bowker to do mine.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 12:39 am:

Ok I will go out on a limb here. Turn your car 90 deg's and try that. I read somewhere to point the car N/S or E/W do not remember which. Good luck let us know how it turns (ha ha) out.
MarkG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gordon Byers on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 10:52 am:

Jeremy, when I recharged my mag I had success by doing the following: Parked the car facing east, jacked up the left rear wheel, set the compass as A. Boer described and with the hand brake all the way forward started slowly turning the engine. The directions I had say to have the compass needle point to the front of the car but the best I could get was the needle pointing to the mag post. I went ahead and "zapped" with 36 DC volts, (3 12 volt batteries hooked in series), by hooking the negative to ground and holding the positive to the mag post for 1 or 2 seconds. I would "zap" it thus 3 or 4 times and then turn the engine over until I got the compass needle pointing to the mag post again and repeat the process until I felt the engine had turned the mag 360 degrees. Probably overkill but I have a good strong mag now, will idle on mag slow enough to nearly count the revolutions. Just my experience, good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 12:27 pm:

You point the car east-west, that way you can be sure the compass is pointing to the magnet and not to the north pole.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeremy Locke on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 02:21 pm:

Im thinking about taking the HH off. I really don't want to do it, but running out of ideas. If I take the HH off, what do I zap instead of the mag post?

Or do I need to align the magnets with the HH off, install the HH and rezap the mag post?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 03:25 pm:

Jeremy
Touch the solder pile on top of the field ring.
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeremy Locke on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 09:13 pm:

I took off the hogs head today. Boy that was more involved than I imagined. I just hope I will be able to get it back together someday.

Turns out that one of the brass screws that hold the magneto clamp broke. As it floated around the transmission it messed up a few coils. I also found that my low speed drums is cracked. What a way to start the new year.

I suppose I have to pull out the engine to fix the drum now and coils now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 09:32 pm:

Yep!
But it's good that you found it before it caused more damage.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 02:10 am:

Just a side note; Murray Fahnestock in "The Model T Ford Owner" talks about lining up the car pointing E/W to recharge the magneto on page 238.


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