Hello to all and Happy New year. Can some please help .... just p/u a FORD MODEL T Touring? not sure what year. We have two titles that came with car.The motor says it's 1925, would like to know of any other #'s or ways to veify the year. We can email pics if that will help. Thanks
Ps the engine #is 12864208 Titled in VA. Weight is 1728
Look in Bruce McCalleys book for pictures. Your engine number indicates a very late '25, possibly an early '26.
Model T years are just like today, the new model came out in Aug of the year. So an Aug 1925 mfg T would be the Improved Car for 1926 with the features below:
The 1926-27 Improved touring is easy to tell, if's it later than '25 the gas tank filler will be at the cowl, the coil box under the hood, and the 3 pedals on the floor will have wider foots on the clutch and brake, the reverse will be arrow shaped.
If its a 1925 model year (Aug '24 to July 25) then the touring will look like the one below:
If it is a car – it will surely be a 1926 body style assuming the engine is the same time frame as the body. The engine number you listed is around Dec 7, 1926 (ref Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford” page 533) and the 1926 year model began back in Aug. If it is a Model TT truck – they look basically the same 1925 or 1926 (or at least to me they look about the same).
If the chassis is original to the Dec 7 date you just missed the start of the Ford numbering the car’s frame. Bruce at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/C-D.htm#Chassis2 has:
Accession 94. Walter Fishleigh files.
“Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park.”
But if your engine assembly was replaced (many were – and the car and/or truck is late enough, it may have the original engine number stamped on either the right hand or left hand frame rail. Lift up the front floor boards and look down at both sides. Sometimes a wire brush helps you find it. Again if it was actually produced Dec 7 – it was a week before they started numbering the frames.
Below are the pictures someone kindly posted before and I don’t have time to find their names – but I they will show you where to look. They have been found on either side of the chassis – depending on where the worker was standing when he stamped the numbers.
And please let us know if it is a car or a Ton Truck that you are discussing.
Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford Touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.
A car built in Dec., '25 would be a '26 but would not have the bar between the front fenders at the headlight mounts like the car in the first picture posted by Dan. Nice car Dan.
Mr. White said he picked up a FORD MODEL T touring. I gotta think it is not a ton truck.
Aaron -- thanks -- I missed /forgot that he mentioned “touring” in his post, but I did notice that he had a TT on his profile.
Dennis -- yes please either post some photos or e-mail them and I will gladly post them. If you click on my name at the top of this entry it brings up my profile and my normal e-mail address is the third line down. Please put "Model T" somewhere in the subject (it will be read much sooner.)
And Aaron is correct the early 1926 cars used a headlight that was attached to the fender without a bar. See: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/I-O.htm#lamps -- scroll down to 1926-27 and check out the pictures also. But I have not seen a date specified for when the first style of the bar between the lights was introduced. The 1926 body style was introduced in Aug 1925. Never do math in public? There were about 400,000 Ts produced between the last part of Aug 1925 and the first part of Dec 1925. All 1926 model year. So depending on when they changed, and how quickly (Ford often had the Branch Plants continue to use the older parts up while the Highland Park Plant introduced the new parts) Dennis' T might have come originally with the cross bar for the headlamps. Aaron, if you have any information (factory drawing dates, factory change card dates, surviving cars etc.) that would help narrow down when Ford added the first style headlamp bar or changed to the other bars, we would love to know. Bruce does not have that detail/date listed, or if he does, I missed it. Great point – I’m hoping we can document it some.
And if it is like many of the other Ts I've known, there is a good chance several of the parts have been replaced over the years. Front fenders and lamps often would be replace in a gentle frontal crash while the rest of the car would be fine and left alone. And there is a least one 1926-27 with the earlier 1923-25 fenders (replaced by the owner -- not originally supplied by Ford). So pictures of the car would be very helpful.
Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.
Here is a newbie qustion.
What is the difference between a '25 and the '23-'24 Tourings? I thought they were the same.
If someone had a Touring Car from these three model years, how would you tell them apart at a glance?
I do know there is a cowl height difference between the early '23 cars.
"Wider foots" Dan?
Typically the 1923 touring had the "low" radiator. In about July 1923 the "1924" style appeared with the"high" radiator with the valance covering the front of the frame. In addition, a bracket was added to fasten the steering column to the instrument panel, and stil later the engine was given the "four-dip" engine pan. The "1925" model evolved using more metal (replacing wooden parts of the body) and the doors were hinged with a rectangular-shaped hinge assembly instead of the hinge with unequal length "arms." There were other relatively minor changes in 1925 such as the 21-inch "balloon" wheels, the combination choke and needle valve adjustment like that used in the 1926 models, etc.
Just got an email with picture of the new T Dennis posted,
You can see it's an Improved Ford, intro in Aug 1925, so I replied to his email as his new T is a "1926" model year Ford. Fender mounted headlamps, has balloon split rim demountable wood spoke wheels.
Really nice barn find, all intact, a bit of damage to the windshield but the body appears rust free, a real nice Improved Touring!
Lucky Dennis, you have a nice project!
Here are a couple shots of our early '26 Touring with the fender mounted lights and steel spoke wheels. Not visible is a Planatar auxillary transmission, and a period Bosch distributor ignition. Those plus the windwings, nickel radiator shell, and bumpers have been with the car possibly since new, but we think they might have been added by the original Colorado dealer to create a "Sport Touring".
My daughter loves the car and added the little bud vase to the dash. We're building a speedster now that will be "Her" car.
Wayne, That is a real beauty! Great period accesories! Could you describe your "Planitar" aux. transmission? I've never heard of that one. Oh, that forclosed AA must have had an awfully thick payment book.(YUK YUK)
The Planatar auxillary transmission mounts ahead of the rear end and adds another range to the gear set, much like a Ruckstell axle. The shift for it is a center mount again like the Ruckstell. On ours it seems to add an additional low set of gears rather than a higher set. Since the car was originally a Colorado car, we think it was to add a lower gear set for pulling hills better.
We've gotten into the running board accessories and I've recently finished restoring a "Bird Dog Palace" we found at the Centennial. I'm putting together a short article for the Vintage Ford on the various pieces we have found. Neat part of the hobby.
Ad in Ford Owner, May 1926 introducing the new Planator accessory transmission for the Model T.
Pretty neat design "over 80% of the gears are Ford parts". Too bad it came out in the last years of the T, probably not too many of these parts around.