Embedded Nuts in Rim Lugs

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Embedded Nuts in Rim Lugs
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve S on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 05:44 pm:

I have one rim on which the lugs nuts are embedded in the lug. They are set inside so that they turn within it and you can't lose them. Having said that let me point out that of the 4 old rims I have (none restored as of yet) all of the lugs have fallen off so I cannot tell which rim they came with. So, anyone ever seen these? Who made such a rim?

Steve


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael J McCrary on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 09:37 pm:

Steve
My guess is they are off a 23 inch TT rim. I have no clue who made them, but, I'm looking for some.
Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 12:43 am:

Steve,

First, almost all the Canadian cars that were equipped with demountable rims from 1919 to 1924 or 25 usually came with the rims that did NOT have the permanent lugs attached to them but had removable lugs.

Many of the 1919 – 24 USA Model Ts also came with demountable rims which did NOT have the lugs permanently attached. Although I believe more of the USA cars came with the Hayes style rim (made by more than Hayes but to Ford’s specifications). Those Hayes style rims did have the 4 lugs permanently attached to the demountable rim.

In addition to that there were numerous other wheel and rim makers as well as other car manufactures that used both styles of demountable rims. And for light cars the 30 x 3 1/2 clincher rim was a fairly common choice.

So if the lugs you have came on an original Ford car (and not Ton Truck) around 1922 and the lug nut is a permanent part of the lug, they are probably Ford part # 2846C used in 1922 with the 2845-C Ford (not Kelsey but Ford) rims. The price list of parts indicates that was the only year they were used.



Above is an illustration from the 1926 Price list of Parts showing TWO of the removable style lugs.



Above is a picture Tim took of what I believe are the 1922 part number 2846-C removable lugs for use with the 1922 Ford demountable 30 x 3 1/2 rim.

The 2846-C lugs should be used with the 2845-C rim which should be used with the wheel that has the correct fellow for the 2845-C rim to mate with properly.

Please post some pictures or e-mail them of your rims, felloes, and lugs – that should make it easier to sort out. Also are they clincher or balloon rims? The 2846-C was for a clincher and NOT a balloon rim.

Note below is a question about an earlier lug that Ford used.



Above is the part number 2846 from the 1920 price list of parts and is described as a “Demountable rim clamp and nut assb. “ I would like to know if anyone has a better picture of them and/or if they know if it also has the nut as part of the lug? The price was 15 cents for the 2846 clamp and nut assb but only 5 cents for the Hayes demountable rim nut 2848 or 5 cents for the Kelsey demountable rim nut 2848B both also listed for 1919-1920. I would GUESS that the 2846 rim clamp and nut assembly has the nut permanently attached – but that is just a GUESS. Page 282 of Bruce McCalley’s book shows one of those clamps next to what I believe is a standard 2846B Kelsey removable lug. But in Bruce’s book, the picture does not show enough for me to tell how the nut is or is not part of the clamp. It shows it from the side that touches the rim and you can see what appears to be threads. But I would like to find additional information if someone has any.



Above is the 1107-B that has the nut permanently attached to the lug and is for the Kelsey TT rear wheel. 1919-? And the 1107-C is a later one starting in 1924 – 27. The 1107-B is labeled as a Kelsey demountable but the 1107-C did not say which brand. Both are heavier duty than the car.

Lots more questions – some of which have been discussed in previous threads, but I need to stop here for the moment. Hopefully this will encourage others to add some of the additional pieces (either new or links to what has already been posted).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dodd on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 02:53 pm:

I dug around in a box of wheel locks that I have and found this nosr wheel clamp with 127 T-N cast into it. I assume these are a period replacement part for part #2846-C. I have 6-8 of them. 2846-C ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve S on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 08:47 pm:

Mine look much like this. The rim itself does indeed have something of a radius to which the lug mounts - not the normal sharp face. Sadly, I have one rim that uses these, and only three lugs to fit it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 11:07 pm:

Steve,

If you cold post some photos or e-mail some photos that might help. I was looking at the price list of parts and the combinations of rims to felloes and clamps takes more brain bytes than I have available at the moment.

Above is a scan from the 1924-25 Western Auto Catalog. I think their J-7910 may be their equivalent of the Ford Price List part 2846 for the Kelsey rims with the removable lugs that was used 1919 - ? If so – you could save 3 cents ordering there. Their J-7911 appears to be the same as the Ford price list 2846-B again for use with the Kelsey removable lug rim. And theirs sold for two cents less than Fords but when you purchased lots of 10 from Ford they were 3 cents less than Western Auto’s price.



Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve S on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 08:47 pm:

Thanks to all. Found the fourth lug I needed to complete the one rim that I have of this style and now am on a quest for 3 more rims.


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