Rust not just in the water inlet and outlet, but the head also

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Rust not just in the water inlet and outlet, but the head also
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Knudsen on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 05:46 pm:

I pulled off the inlet and outlet and now have a couple more questions:

1) How bad can it get and still be ok? I stuck my finger in the inlet and pulled out flakes of rust. Mind you, I was driving this thing around the neighborhood just last fall, rusty radiator and all, and had no issues. Do I just flush it out with a hose and be satisfied? Or am I going to need a new head?

2) While pulling the outlet off, I managed to twist off one of the bolts so it is stuck in the head. Any tips on how to get that out?

thanks to all in advance!
Andy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Watson on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 06:10 pm:

Andy,

Flush it out with water first. You can use a mechanics magnet tool to get those larger stuck rust flakes out also. You should not need a new head.
As far as the broken bolt, you will need an extracter set. A quality set, not one of those cheap sets. The cheap sets will just break off in the hole that you need to drill in the bolt. If you still have trouble removing the broken bolt with the extractor, you may want to heat the surrounding area of the bolt with a propane torch. You can soak the bolt area with penetrating oil the night before too. Hope this helps,
Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 06:46 pm:

It sounds like you'll may wish to pull the head to get the broken bolt out. I would think it's preferable to work on the boken bolt straight on instead of at a 90 degree angle. Also, I'd rather avoid the risk of damaging the radiator and fan in the bolt removal process, so I think I'd pull the head. Just my opinion.

If you do remove the head, be sure to use the opportunity to clean out the head water jacket and get all the debris out of it from all openings. There are some small openings that are usually clogged up and you can clear them as well. Likewise, you can use a wetvac and suck a lot of stuff out of the block water jacket. the more crud you can remove, the better.

On the other hand, removing the head presents a whole new set of potential challenges. A new head gasket?. New manifold gaskets? Stripped head bolt holes in the block when tightening the bolts? and so on. Also, in my experience, other things can happen that you may not consider until it's too late: exhaust nut cracks, gas line crimps, etc.

Well, I guess I've gone full circle with this. I imagine this is why I love my T! No end to the possibilities for work, bloody knuckles, expansion of the kids vocabulary, and fun.

Good Luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Watson on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 06:54 pm:

Henry,

I got a kick out of your last sentence. It certainly can be a blast no matter what you are doing.

Cheers,
Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Knudsen on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 08:29 pm:

ha ha! I'm definitely not yanking the head...not yet anyway! I'm sure THOSE bolts aren't coming out without a fight.

But, I do want to buy a mechanic's magnet. Where would I find one? Autozone? Lowe's?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken - SAT on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 08:46 pm:

Don't ask me how the prickly pears and shells got into the head but you won't get this kind of stuff out with a magnet. :-) It may be better to pull the head anyway. You can check the steam holes too. They're usually the the first to plug up if there's lots of rust inside.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Watson on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 09:06 pm:

Andy,

Sears Craftsman has several types of mechanics magnets. If you remove the head to drill out the bolt(s) for the extractors, you can also use the mechanics magnet to retrive rust out of the block through the coolant holes. You can also break up some heavy rust through the same holes with an old blunt screwdriver. Then flush with water. Removing the head will undoubtly be easier to remove the bolts, but that is up to you. If you have heavy rust in the block, flushing with water alone will not remove it.
Good Luck,
Gary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 09:25 pm:

If you have an old speedometer cable or other similar cable flexible but strong, you can put it in the chuck of an electric drill and run it through the water passages as far as you can get and sort of rotor rooter it. Then flush it until the water comes out clear. If the radiator is off the car, you can drill straight on into the bolt. If you get a straight shot and centered, you can drill almost as large as the bolt. Leave enough so you don't get into the threads of the head. Then work with a small chisel carefully work the bolt toward the center until you can get it out with a long nose pliars. You don't need to pull the head until you have to do a ring and valve job or if you need to replace a blown head gasket. If, after you do this and get the radiator on it runs hot, then you might take the head off and clean out the small vent holes. You can remove the head without removing the manifolds. You should use a rust inhibitor in your water. I personally use 50 50 antifreeze, the green kind. Mix with distilled water or get the kind which is already mixed 50 50. Anti freeze will protect your engine and radiator from freezing, and also contains rust inhibitor. It also boils at a higher temperature so you won't lose as much when the engine gets hot. And if you run a water pump it also lubricates it.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 12:22 am:

If the broken bolt is flush (or close) to the surface of the head, place a next-size-smaller nut over the end of the bolt and weld the nut to the bolt, welding around the inside of the hole in the nut. The heat from welding loosens the bolt and then you can unscrew it easily using the nut.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Berch on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 12:34 am:

You beat me to it mike. Very good method. If using an old fashioned ark welder like I do, don't be afraid to turn up the amps and make several passes cause the nut will fill up with slag. The extra heat will help break the rust.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 11:01 am:

I guess it depends on how much rust is in the head... how concerned are you? If you want the rust out and you don't want to pull the head then just add a gallon of evapo-rust to the radiator after you drain the water out. This will dislodge any and all rust in about 48hours. It is environmentally safe and can be found at Ace Hardware. But, it is expensive. About $30 a gallon. But, it absolutely will do the trick. Do not try phosphoric acid (ospho) as this will clog your head and you will have to pull it and sand blast out the black gum it leaves behind... btdt Also, be prepared for some water jacket plugs to come loose when you use this stuff... It dissolves all rust even rusted up freeze plugs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By michael on Monday, January 05, 2009 - 11:02 am:

be sure and not connect the radiator up while you are doing this... you don't want any of those particles in your radiator


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