Horn wire

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Horn wire
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 04:48 pm:

What is the correct way to attach the horn wire to the steering column where it runs from the button towards the firewall? (1915 roadster)Thanks; John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 04:58 pm:

I'm not an expert on this, but as I understand it, the 1915-16 steering column has a tube on the underside of the column to put the wire in and threaded holes in top of the colum itself, up near the steering wheel, to attach the horn button. If your car dosen't have the wire tube, it may be an older, pre 1915-16, column.

I hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:05 pm:

Yup...just depends on when car was built [oh boy,, here goes another debate :-)

If the original car was a klaxton horn, no tube. If it had a mag horn, tube in place. A good chance there may have been overlap with klaxton AND tubes, but no way the opposite could have happened.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:21 pm:

oooops...just checked the bible..........

No official record of Klaxton use exists...so change above to bulb horn.

Check engine number. From about early Feb. 1915 the electric magneto horn was cut in....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john Fenton on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:32 pm:

It,s a mag horn. Button is screwed to column on upper left side. No sign of tube or any place to attach a tube. I have just used plastic zip ties? Dosn,t look very original.I could install a tube if I knew the correct size and material.Also how is the tube attached? Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john Fenton on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:37 pm:

It,s a mag horn. Button is screwed to column on upper left side. No sign of tube or any place to attach a tube. I have just used plastic zip ties? Dosn,t look very original.I could install a tube if I knew the correct size and material.Also how is the tube attached? Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 05:54 pm:

John,

A piece of 1/4" brake line tube would do it. It is held to the underside of the column by three almost springlike clips that appear to be spot welded in place on one side, but are probably just rivits. Top of tube is about in line with the switch...bottom of tube just over pedals.

Prob could use homemade clips and small sheet metal screws if you are not worried about the column being an early one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 06:55 pm:

The early 1915's used a bulb horn. Then the mag horn with a brass bell and then the all steel mag horn. Also the early ones with a mag horn had no horn wire tube. The wire was wraped around the steering column. Then they put on a small horn tube on the column. In later Model T's the horn tube is larger.
Leon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren Mortensen on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 10:57 am:

Since you don't have a tube, I'd follow Leon's suggestion. Your mag horn should have 2 terminals. One wire runs from the mag connection on the coil box (under the hood) to one horn terminal. The wire to the horn button then connects to the remaining terminal and hooks to a screw terminal inside the button. The horn is activated by pressing the button and grounding the circuit to the steering column.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 04:40 pm:

It,s a Canadian built roadster (both doors open) Firewall number is C79454,cast in block is 61915 stamped in block is 39738. Everything is in perfect shape.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 12:07 am:

Leon:

The evolution of the bulb horn to the mag horn was NOT a straight line as with most other changes. Ford first introduced the mag horn on about 10,000 cars with BOTH mag and bulb horns being mixed in production. The dash shield during this time had a notch for the horn tube but then later had a clearance bevel to clear either the mag horn (mounted on the firewall sharing a steering column bolt) or the horn tube of the bulb horn mounted under the hood near the same location as the mag horn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leon Parker on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 01:24 am:

John
My Feb 1915 touring has the bulb horn. I think Ford used up the steering columns with no horn wire tube.I have seen two early 15's with mag horns and and no horn wire tube. They both had remnants of wire around the column. The later 15's I have seen had a horn wire tube that you could only get one wire down it. Also the 1914 tourings were still being made in 1915. Ford was using up parts for both cars. My 15's wood construction is just like my May of 1914 touring except the cowl area. Leon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 09:34 am:

For John Regan and Leon Parker -- thanks for your great inputs. I know you both are familar with the note from:

http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm

which says:

JAN 23 Acc. 575, Box 19, Ford Archives
Will use 10,000 electric horns. If satisfactory, these horns will be used to replace bulb horns in manufacturing. A note to reduce the stock of bulb horns.

But I thought I would add that for those who are not familiar with it.

+++++++++++++++

For John Fenton,

So many good questions so little time.

Note it appears your car is a Canadian version which adds a few additional twists to your question. In some cases Ford Canada introduced changed before the USA models, such as the slant windshield and one man top introduced with the 1920 Canadian cars but not available in the USA model until the 1923 model (end of 1922 calendar year). In other cases Canadian production continued using parts long after the USA production had switched to a newer version. For example the ribbed foot pedals were used for only several months in the 1915 USA production but were used by Ford Canada from 1915 to sometime beyond 1919. And in some cases Ford Canada never used the part the USA folks used – such as the combination horn light switch introduced on the 1918 USA cars. And in other cases the USA production never used the horn switch on top of the steering wheel that the 1920-27 Canadian cars used. [Neat side note – evidently that Ford Canada horn button on top of the steering wheel part was initially produced in the USA. – does anyone know if it was eventually produced in Canada and if so about when and by whom?]

A look at the USA Ford Price List of Parts was a few in 1915, 1916, 1917 was not very helpful as they started listing horns in 1916 but did not put any date for what years the horn fit.

The Canadian Price list of parts in 1915 does not show any electric horn parts listed. But the Jun 1916 Canadian Price list has the horn parts listed but does NOT share any dates for the use. But the Canadian Price List of Parts effective 1 Nov 1916 [for 1909-1917 parts] and the 1915-1919 Australian Accessory Price List (which was for Canadian cars and chassis) both show the dates 1916-1919 for the electric horn parts use. Which opens the possibility that the 1915 Canadian produced cars were not offered with an electric horn until the 1916 models.

Note in both countries the 1916 models would have begun to be produced during the last few months of 1915 just as the 2009 models were available during the last part of 2008.

And a better question that what type of horn wiring was used on the 1915 Canadian cars might be – what type is appropriate for your car. And that leads to even more questions In general for the USA cars the serial number on the engine stopped matching the number on the patent plate attached the firewall starting in 1911. But in general for the Canadian production cars, the engine serial number continued to match the number still stamped into the paten plate at least through 1920. (Mr Vic Patterson’s 1920 slant windshield touring has the matching engine and patent plate ID number.) Which leads us to your comment that your paten plate on the firewall has the number C79454 which according to the listings at: [http://www.modelt.ca/ and then click on the listing at the left for “Ford of Canada” and scroll down for the serial number listing and also Bruce McCalley’s book “Model T Ford” page 540] would probably be an early 1917 model year number. You listed the engine serial number as 39738. Please confirm that it does or does not have a “C” in front of that number. If it is a typical Canadian assembled engine after 1913 it would have the letter “C” in front of the number. Assuming it has the “C” in front of the number a C 39738 from those same sources above would indicate an engine produced late in 1915. So you may want to determine if the engine, the chassis, or the ID patent plate tag was changed sometime in the past. If you want to pursue that question you could post and/or send some photos. Sometimes folks feel like people are trying to throw rocks at “their new baby” i.e. sharing this is not consistent with that etc. so feel free not to ask the question or to do it off line. In my own case, I like to know as much about my car as I can so I can hopefully put it back to mostly one year/time frame of parts. In the case of my own 1915 cut off in addition to missing the rear section it has a replacement 1916 block, 1923-25 front fenders, and numerous other parts that were replaced over the years. But it clearly had several 1915 only features that indicate the serial number my car most likely started out as an actual 1915 touring that had parts replaced over time. Of course it could have been assembled from parts by some teenage boys in the 1930s and we would never know for sure.

So depending on when and where [Canadian Branch Assembly plants tended to use up old parts also] your car was produced, that probably has a factor on what type of horn and horn wiring the car should have.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap Tucker 1915 Model T Ford touring cut off and made into a pickup truck and 1907 Model S Runabout. Sumter SC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Fenton on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:38 am:

Thanks Hap for all the interesting and helpful information.There is no C prefix on the engine block serial # so I assume the engine has been changed to a US built one sometime in the past.It does have the ribbed pedals, but other features are not correct-- yoke attached to bottom of axle,rear fenders like 1914 (not curved at back).I sure have learned a lot on this forum , read it every day. Thanks again. John.


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