Non t, Worlds fastest electric car

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: Non t, Worlds fastest electric car
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:36 pm:

Electric Car?
If a little guy in a home garage can make this, what should all the big car makers be doing in all their giant labs. ?????

This car is awesome!

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR. on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:09 pm:

That's WAY cool! A fellow here in Fayetteville converted his Porsche 911 to electric.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:11 pm:

All hype and no substance. Sorry, no cigar. This guy is causing them to generate electricity close to my house and I must breathe the crap from the generating plant. He is not paying fuel tax on his fuel and he should be ashamed of himself.

It is not a zero emissions vehicle. Electricity is not free and we must burn fossil fuels in order to generate it. You are just a liar and a jolly good green fellow out to fool the voting public with no brains. Count the pollution from the generating plant and ad that to your little toy.

Cut the crap and make your car get the equivalent of 2 5 miles to the gallon at the same cost we are paying at the pump today. I will bet you can't do that if you pay the correct fees and services and get all the paper work in order. You are a cheat.

You can use up the amperage of your antique batteries in a quick drag race and then go home to recharge. That corvette can get 30 miles to the gallon without an umbilical cord and go for over 500 miles on a tank of fuel with very little emissions while you have to suck on an electric teat attached to the fire breathing electric plant before you can go another few miles at high speed. You are not fooling me with your little story because there is no free lunch.

That corvette could blow you away if they spent what you spent to buy your toy and still get better mileage than you if you pay the tax that you are avoiding not letting the State know what you are doing behind their backs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:34 pm:

They did a spot on speed channel about a year ago. Same guy. I want someone to talk about the disposal of the used batterys just once. Lead batterys are no problem...messy but it all gets used. Nimh (nickle metal Hydride)and LiIon (lithium Ion) you have to PAY to dispose of. I take care of this at work. I HATE the Prius and Escape family of cars (shared Tech from Toyota) I really don't hate the idea just the fact they are trying to ram them down our throats. Next time a prisus driver goes on a rant about Government subsidized OIL ask them who paid for the research for the electric's. And who pays for the disposal of the battery packs? You guessed it, The Government!, That means we do.
two different thing have happened here in the southern California area. Ford made an electric Ranger pickup in the late 90's. I had a customer that got hold of one at a city vehicle auction. He LOVED that pickup. One day he came in looking for a cell for the pack (there was more that 30 cells in the pack) we could get one but they were well over 300.00 each!! I knew where there was a bunch of them stored so I sent him over there. They wanted to take his truck from him. They were on contract to destroy all of them and he wasn't supposed to have one. The city wasn't supposed to let it go.
Maybe I'll rant about the other later!

Lets stick with our T's


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steven Thum on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:44 pm:

Gosh Frank I thought this would be an amusing video. I thought electric cars weren't supposed to be this fast. I didn't see anything about what his range is in normal driving. But as for the cost to convert his car, anybody can spend a fortune to hot rod his car, but this guy did it different.
Let's also face some reality. Electric cars are coming. Electric plants are polluting less and less with the scubbers they must put in place. In the 1960's the plant I lived by used to drop soot on our home. That plant no longer does this.
Try to mellow, this is just a place to share.


Steven


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:09 am:

I have a problem with fossil fuels. We are running out, polluting, and paying for our dependence economically and politically.

Maybe the way to "blaze" new trails is with exhibitions like this (let's see, didn't Henry Ford gain fame with speed equipment?). As for battery disposal, etc, all energy generation comes at a cost, although possibly some, such as wind, geo-thermal, photo-electric and possibly nuclear, leave virtually no carbon footprint.

I think it's about time, and I certianly enjoy this individuals "moxy" to get it done.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:31 am:

"I have a problem with fossil fuels. We are running out, polluting, and paying for our dependence economically and politically.

Maybe the way to "blaze" new trails is with exhibitions like this (let's see, didn't Henry Ford gain fame with speed equipment?). As for battery disposal, etc, all energy generation comes at a cost, although possibly some, such as wind, geo-thermal, photo-electric and possibly nuclear, leave virtually no carbon footprint."

Yeh, Once they're built. My brother drives a truck delivering Heavy/oversize loads. He's now done at least 5 trips (of 90 total units/trips) himself from San Diego to Corpus Christy Texas delivering Towers and heads with blades for wind gereration.
No fossil fuels burned there??
I do agree that electrics are here to stay and I really hope so. I'm in the battery buisness and job security is a plus. I'm just tired of them telling us it's so green and clean when still 60% of our electric power still comes from Coal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:55 am:

Scott,

Are you complaining that because your brother's truck is employed hauling wind generation units, they (generation units) are not environmently friendly? Then you go on to say that 60% of our electric power comes from coal. Where does the other 40% come from?

I just don't get it.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:04 am:

The towers, blades and heads weren't made in San Diego. . They came from Communist China, and maybe other places. The truck was just the final leg of the trip.

If the towers were made in the US, they would be coming from Gary or Youngstown.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:15 am:

Not complaning, just pointing out that the fans come with a fossil fuel cost and who knows how long it takes to level it out. Last I checked the break down was 60% coal 20% hydro 12% nuclear 8% other, this is where the wind and solar are represented. Things have th change ALOT before wind and solar move up the chain. I've heard the wacko people that are dead set against wind say that in order for it to be a major part of our grid "there would be fans as far as you could see" Or "you couldn't look up and see clear sky without seeing a fan". Well I believe that is an exaggeration. There will be a happy medium someday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:22 am:

Rick, you are right. They came by ship and this was cheaper than the trip through the canal. Sounds hard to believe if you figure 90+ trucks/ with pilot vehicle, from San Diego to Texas and back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Albert Gonzaz on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:26 am:

I think that all points made are well taken, and the guys car is impressive generating that kind of speed.
I also think that the electrics are here to stay but we must agree that the green freaks are full of hogwash, just today I heard on the news about another study that this time reputes all that global warming bull, every day some new idiot comes out telling us that the world is going to end because we are in it.
That is why at the end I agree with Mr. Gilham and "Lets stick with our T's"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:35 am:

Just did a little search and found this. I was off a little.

U.S. Power Grid – Status and Updates

Statistics reveal that the nationwide electricity consumption in the U.S. doubled from 8 percent to 16 percent in three decades spanning 1970 to 2000. In the next three decades, demand for electricity across the country is expected to grow at a conservative estimate of 40 percent. This implies an additional required capacity of 258 GW. The country’s electric transmission grid currently consists of 160,000 miles of high-voltage transmission lines. Forecasts reveal that an additional 12,900 miles of high voltage wire will be required by 2015 to provide for the increasing demand for electric power in the nation.

In 2007, the total electricity consumed was about 3,925bn kilowatt-hours (kWh) at the rate of about 10.75bn kWh per day. In the same period, the amount of electric power generated was about 4,157.2bn kWh of which 48.6 percent was procured from coal-fired power plants. Natural-gas fired plants accounted for 21.5 percent, nuclear plants for 19.4 percent, hydroelectric plants for 6 percent, petroleum-fired plants for 1.6 percent, and the remainder originated from renewable sources, primarily biomass, but also included geothermal, solar and wind.

In the midst of this analysis, it is also interesting to note that the U.S. electricity sector is the source of 40 percent of the nation’s emissions of carbon dioxide, which is roughly 10 percent of the world’s emissions. This paves the path for increased capital expenditure not only to address the pressing needs for additional capacity, but also to ensure regulatory compliance in the face of serious environmental concerns.


Structure of the National Power Grid
The national power grid is made up of three independent grids – the Western Interconnection, the Eastern Interconnection, and the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) Interconnection. High-voltage electrical transmission occurs at 230kV, 345 kV, 500kV, and 765kV. These grids are connected in a few places by means of high-voltage direct current lines. The national power grid also provides interconnectivity between individual power utilities, except at those in the states of Alaska and Hawaii. Transmission and distribution of power is managed by control centers, which monitor the utility’s generating plants, transmission, sub-transmission and distribution systems, and customer loads. The transmission system is a 100-year old amalgamation of local utilities. The Western and Eastern Interconnections together have about 140 control centers and 3,000 utilities, whereas ERCOT operates as a single power system and not as a network of utility companies.

Advantages and Limitations of the Grid Infrastructure
Grid linkages allow electricity generated in one area to be shared with another, thereby enhancing the ability of each utility to address local power outages by drawing energy from a linking one. In return, each utility that agrees to share is allowed increased reserve capacity and use of larger and more efficient generators.

On the downside, this large and diverse network needs to grapple with complexities that arise on account of inter-operations between elements controlled by diverse groups. While extensive interconnectivity in this system allows power to be transmitted over long distances, there is always the threat of local disturbances propagating across the grid and causing widespread failure. One such was observed during a major breakdown in November 1965 in the eastern part of the nation. This catastrophe enveloped an area of more than 80,000 square miles, from New York to Massachusetts, merely on account of the failure of an automatic control device in Queenston, Ontario. A similarly massive failure occurred in the U.S. and Canada in August 2003, when a loss of 61,800 MW of electrical power resulted in a severe blackout in an area covering 50 million people.

Initiatives in the U.S. Power Sector
A recent report by the U.S. Department of Energy (DoE) emphasizes the importance of the transmission system as ‘an interstate highway system for wholesale electricity commerce’. The last decade has seen efforts by the government to provide electrical power at low costs to consumers by propelling investments in power generation and attempting to increase operational efficiencies. There is enhanced focus on elimination of daily transmission bottlenecks by modernization, adoption of advanced technologies and efficient operating practices, and location of generation points in closer proximity to areas of demand.

The Office of Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability aims to resort to high temperature superconducting (HTS) power cables, transformers, generators and motors to reduce energy losses in power line transmission. The consequent improvement in energy efficiency of electric transmission and distribution is seen as a key mechanism for reducing greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.

Integration of renewable energy into a distributed energy generation and storage system is another technique that is being used to reduce demand, relieve transmission congestion, reduce thermal loadings and energy losses during peak hours, again with an objective of increasing efficiency and decreasing GHG emissions.

Another important initiative is the ‘Smart Grid’ plan of integrating intelligent communications networks with the power grid to enable real-time monitoring of the grid, allowing for manual or automatic intervention, whenever required, to maintain smooth operations. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 aims to encourage investment in all sectors of the energy industry, including the electric power market. It is estimated that approximately US$ 100bn will be spent over the next decade to implement the Smart Grid project.

The National Academy of Engineering has hailed the U.S. power grid as a ‘supreme engineering achievement of the 20th century’. The key challenge for the power sector is to invest heavily in the modernization of a century-old legacy system in an attempt to keep up with the soaring demands. Simultaneous care should be taken to prevent any concurrent hikes in costs. Also, any improvements should address increasingly stringent regulations pertaining to environmental concerns.

The need of the hour is to create an electric superhighway that can keep pace with the nation’s information highway. In view of the rapid advances being made in the digital information and telecommunications network, this will indeed be a substantial undertaking.

From the http://www.dieselserviceandsupply.com/US_power_grid.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 12:43 pm:

I don't think the guy should be ashamed of himself for experimenting with new technology that may in some way help with the energy crisis we face. If you want to criticize someone, how about the guy with the 1000 h.p. pickup that goes around in circles doing burnouts until the tires catch on fire. Now that's really useful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:03 pm:

Wind power is a bit unique in that you have to place the generators where the wind blows, and not near the point of consumption. . T. Boone Pickens wants the govt to build the high capacity power lines from his windswept land in the Panhandle to Dallas.

The wind corridor from the Panhandle to North Dakota has little resident population to consume power, so new lines are needed to move the power to cities.

NG generators, OTOH, are placed near cities, as the pipes are already in place. Coal is hauled by train or truck to generators, rather than the electricity being generated near the coal mines.

Can't remember his name, but there was a T guy from Michigan on this Forum about ten years ago. He ran a group of small utilities, and they trucked coal in from Ohio, and not by train.

A quarter of the power going from Hoover Dam to Los Angeles is lost to waste: current times resistance of the wires.

Superconductors in pipes hold promise for electric transmission, as there is no energy expended or wasted, other than keeping the pipes very cold.

Wind power has lots of potential, but it works only when the wind blows, so must be supplemented by NG or other means. Storage of electricity is the challenge, as noted in the electric car.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 02:24 pm:

I don't think he should be ashamed either. I just know looking at the battery pack full of Odyssey battery's cost is not a problem for him. Heck I have trouble with folks wanting ONE of those battery's for their Harley. Sometimes you have to pick them up off the floor.

I really think it's cool. I've had thoughts of a electric TT truck.Lots of room for battery's and a cover for the bed for a solar array. I have access to the battery's and only live 7 miles from work. I could do it. it just takes $$


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:11 pm:

Well I watched the video again and got a count on the battery pack. 60-Oydessy PC-680 batterys at 121.49 each adds up to a paltry $7,289.40. Although he does have an "Enersys" sticker on the car so he might have gotten a deal on them. The electric motor and it's controls I don't even have a clue what their worth might be. But thats ends up being one expensive little 1972 B-210.

Our semi was dead in the building one morning and the bos said, "Why don't we try a set (4) of Odyessy batterys in the rig?" He looked up the price and changed his mind. Our cost was near $970.00 for 4 group 31's for a truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ELMO on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:26 pm:

Scott, maybe you should watch it for the third time. He said he borrowed the batteries. Yea I am sure horse drawn carts hauled the first automobile parts to the factories too. with your logic we would still be using horses. No disrespect, just think about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 12:25 am:

Go ahead and watch it again. He borrowed the Lithium batterys. Those are the second set. His were on the shelf...the red ones. My logic is fine. I'm all for progress, I think they need to take a lesson from Mr. Ford and make it afforable for the masses??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ELMO on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 12:45 am:

OK Scott,I missed the battery type, for that you have my apology. I still don't understand your anger about your brother hauling the wind generator parts,and using all that diesel fuel. The outrage should be that those parts should have been made here in the good ol USA. We can put a man on the moon 40 years ago and we can't develop and manufacture it here. I don't think so. Its all about cheap labor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 01:13 am:

We have wind powered generating systems in California and most of the time they are standing still and turned sideways so the wind will not turn them. They work but they will not let them work, so why have them ?.

An electric car would be nice but don't generate that electricity right next to my house and you had better pay your road tax on that electricity or else they will send you to jail. Using all that electricity will take you to level four five or six. Ask me what that is, heh ? Out here in California they penalize you for using electricity and increase the fees exponentially as you use it. They estimate every other month and estimate very high which puts you in a higher bracket. The next month they read your meter and you pay hardly anything because you already paid for it at the higher rate. They love to do this. It is called fastening the public with a screw driver. I have a lot more to say on this subject . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 01:15 am:

I'm not angry at all, just explaining that wind and solar aren't as clean as they would have us think. And I'm glad my brother still has a job in these tight times.
These units are from Japan and made by Mitsubishi. The Blades are 150' long, for a 300' dia. These are the biggest being erected at this time in the USA. Just the rotor hub is 15' x 15'
He's supposed to get me some photos.
Again, I didn't mean to come off mad, just frustrated with the "green" folks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Elkins on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 06:06 am:

"I'm all for progress, I think they need to take a lesson from Mr. Ford and make it afforable for the masses??"

You might want the consider that cars (even Fords) were not affordable for the masses in the begining either. Neither were microwave ovens, calculators, nor computers. It takes an evidently little-known concept called "mass pro-duc-tion" to make new technology available to the pee-ons.

Anyway, if they want to really demonstrate that electric car's speed, they should have left out the Vette video and showed it beating "real" fast cars. Seriously, that video is pretty slick but its kinda trying to compare apples and oranges. Maybe like pitting a Sopwith Camel and a F16, then patting the jet pilot on the back for winning the race. Kinda a no-brainer if you understand the capability of an electric motor. Where it has superiority over an engine in some areas, it is equally inferior in others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Jeffrey Cole on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:58 am:

I listened to Cspan on the radio yesterday as the energy secretary nomine was being grilled.He wants to build nuclear plants and NOW,because we need to go from gas to carbon free emissions to slow global warming.And there is the problem of disposal of waste that he says will be delt with in time.From what I heard there are tanks with the waste in them over 30 years old that are leaking.Duh,dont we need to deal with that mess and soon?
Sounded kinda stupid to me.think about it.What is a earth about 2 degrees hotter compared to a earth damaged by 1 or 2 nuclear plants that somoene blew up or pushed the wrong button right before shift change?
Wind and Hydro and solar.Set up which ever is most effective at each persons home to be used at that point is the smartest way to go.BUT it cost to dang much for normal people to do it.You are starting to see some solar panals cheaper than they were a few years ago but still,nothing you could afford to put together for daily use.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 09:03 am:

As we're off-topic with electricity wind solar etc, can I throw this in?

My brother lives in New Mexico, he's just finished building his house. It's designed to use passive solar gain to both cool the house in summer and heat in winter. It works. One of his friends has fled South for the winter, faced with $1000/month heating bills. My brother has spent $46 on propane (for cooking) so far this winter.

Here in the UK, if the average family get in their car and cruise around with the kids watching the in-car DVD, they will use less energy and release less CO2 than by sitting indoors watching TV. Self-builders are designing houses to use solar gain, but the commercial developers still throw up their little boxes, heated by gas, which we buy from the Russians.

I think we should concentrate on energy efficient buildings before worrying too much about transport.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 10:54 am:

Ray, You make a great point with the Mass production. I've said for years that with all the building here in southern california someone should have MADE all the new construction install Solar panels. We have more sun here than we know what to do with. I just think it could have made a difference. "Adding on" always costs more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:18 am:

Mack, we were both posting at the same time, on the same track :^)

Back in the 1970s, Oliver Postgate designed a warm-air heating system specifically geared to the UK climate - it used a double-skinned roof with air blown through and into the house. A leading co making solar water-heaters bought the patent - not to exploit, but to suppress because it was so cheap!

My brother's house structure was cheap, it's not the materials, it's the design idea that counts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Pizzi on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:38 am:

How are these 1/4 mile times world-records???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steamboat on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 05:40 pm:

I think I remember posting this before and here I am again. The oil and coal lobbies have killed nuclear power in this country permantly. The farm lobby pushed the ethanol fuel onto us.

But what does any of this have to do with Model T'ing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 06:52 pm:

The 1/4 mile times broke the records for the class he runs in. Being electric, it's probably some experimental or something. Probably not a lot of competition in that one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Howard Heninger on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 08:16 pm:

Enviromental Hysteria...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=8917946


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chuck Hoffman on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 09:18 pm:

Environmental Hysteria....perfect title.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

Steamboat, Now we're cooking. We just might be able to grow enough corn in the US to supply ethanol for all the Model T's in the country. But it would Cost Ya.:-)


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