3 Speed Transmission in existing Hogs Head

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2008: 3 Speed Transmission in existing Hogs Head
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 01:45 pm:

We have a 1923 4 sadan which we designed and build a 3 speed transmission to fit in the original hogs head. Yes it works. I am looking for somebody who would like to purchase the design or prototype etc. Please contact me at
clwhipple@clweng.com - Craig Whipple or call 860-448-9547 to discuss. We can send photo's if you wish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 01:49 pm:

Is it planetary, or sliding gear?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 07:05 pm:

Craig
There are a few of us around who be pleased to help you bring something like this to market. Please post some photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 07:07 pm:

Might be a version of this try from 1926



the speedometer drive attachment is pretty cool.
But what do you do for brakes? The copy reads you take out the planetary transmission and replace it, so where does the brake drum go? No mention of accessory wheel brakes in the copy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:41 pm:

I have uploaded some photo's to look at.
We reused the existing brake.
3 speeds forward, true nuetral, and reverse. Used the E brake as a shift lever. Would rather have a center shift! The high speed clutch works as a normal clutch. So the left petal is only a normal clutch pedal, removed the reverse petal and retained the normal brake petal.trans 1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:48 pm:

More trans photo's trans 2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:51 pm:

Another photo 3 speed transtrans 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:55 pm:

Craig,

Didn't you used to have a cool animation (or at least 3d solid models) of your trans set-up on your website at one point in time?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 09:00 pm:

We designed the entire trans in 3D and have all the detail drawings, assemblies etc. to have the parts made. I'll put up some more photo's from the 3D side tomorrow.
Yes, I did have all this on my web site but took it off because I decide not to go into production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 09:28 pm:

That is just way cool! I have seen ad's that used a 3 speed transmission and did away with the bands. It was mounted on the end behind the normal transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 09:58 pm:

That's great! You could even leave a dummy R pedal. I bet some genius could make it do the shifting?

What are the reduction gear ratios; 3:1 and 2:1?

It ain't a planetary, but it's pretty slick. In a note to me, you said it is constant mesh. Does that mean no gear grinding? Is there any part of it that couldn't have been built by Henry in 1922?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:03 pm:

That is way cool. Q: what do you do for emergency brake lever?
Cheers
Adrian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:12 pm:

You should get the ENGINEER OF THE YEAR award. That is plumb ingenious!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 11:20 pm:

I was just thinking that if I had one of those behind one of Les's 5 main engines with a Stipe 350 cam and a pair of good side draft OF's running into it I could probably smoke up the Montana 500 this year if I could keep the other guys from looking inside or lifting the hood. Zoom, Zoom!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 01:56 am:

Hi Craig, I have lots of gear cutting machines and cnc mills. Let me know if I can help. I like Mastercam to draw and tool path. What are you using? Thanks, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steamboat on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:47 pm:

Scott,

Have you ever considered making new gears for the old Warfords?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Sam on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:51 pm:

ooooooooooohh.....aaaaaaahhhhh.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:54 pm:

AS little more background here
1. Design allowed a return to Ford design by simply unbolting and replacing with all the old parts - for the purest !!!
2. 1st gear ratio very close to original, 2nd in the middle and 3rd 1:1 ( same as original)
3. Shifting is a gate stype ( something like a lawn mower) Reverse all the way back, then 1 click for neutral, 1 click forward for 2nd and 1 click forward for 3rd. NO GEAR GRINDING !!
4. Mag parts don't change ( if you want to keep them)
5. We needed to work out something for the "E" brake



Views


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 02:07 pm:

Do you see any reason the R pedal couldn't do the shifting?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Gilham on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 02:15 pm:

WOW! I wish I was smarter and could understand how it works......it don't help much that I'm at work on an antiquated computer 13" screen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Baker on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 02:43 pm:

craig, way cool. i can see how a right hand shift linkage could be setup to avoid using the ebrake. it could interfear with using the brake pedal for brakes. but using the guys in colorado disc brake setup it would be easy to make linkage from the brake pedal to the master cyl. - then it would look something like an automatic shifter in the floor.
just thinking out loud
jb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 03:42 pm:

Rick,it could be possible to use the "R" pedel for shifting - the design would have to be worked and tested.
I have attached another pic from our CAD files just for reference. Anyway, it was a fun project and kept us busy for 4 months.Clear view


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 05:02 pm:

Craig
I really like your design. I wouldn't sweat the shifter part too much. That can be worked out down the road after you get it in production. The important thing is to get something out that works reliably. You will alway get the critics so just grow a extra layer of skin, thats what I have done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Grady Puryear on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 08:06 pm:

I've already got the shifter and brake handle figured out, put me down for one !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dave willis on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 02:39 am:

i have to assume that the shifting action is sequential and not selective even tho a positive neutral exists...any idea how much power it takes to spin all those gears??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 04:08 am:

Hey Steamboat, I have an old warford around somewhere. I need to take it apart to size things up. If there are enough folks that want them I will be glad to make gears. I use high quality gear material and case harden gears all the time. If I can get something to look at up at Turlock it will help speed things up. How many want gears? Thanks, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Whipple on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 09:35 am:

Dave,
Note the photo below for the shift lever. This is a "sequential" trans just like a motorcycle.
Because space is very limited this is the design we decided to go with. I would rather have the shift in the middle but it's nice here because you work the throttle with your right hand and the shift with your left hand. We added a stop so when you are down shifting you don't grind reverse. Note the finger release on the shift lever.
Shift


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steamboat on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 06:14 pm:

Hi Scott,

I have tried to find gears on this forum before, but the only responses I got were from people also looking for new gears. I didn't keep track but I would guess there were ten. The warford I am running now still works, but it howls and clunks in OD and even worse in UD.

Would you have any guess as to what a set might cost?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 06:23 pm:

Hi Steamboat, Say are there different types of Warfords? We Will need to make more than ten sets to make it worthwhile. The cost goes way up for one or two sets. Thats a lot of work on an engine lathe and you need a larger quanity for a cnc. I will look into this a little deeper first of the week. Thanks, Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By steamboat on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 11:42 pm:

Hi Scott, Yes, I certainly understand that. It would be a big investment,while you are wondering if they would sell. One might check with Snyders, Chaffins and other Model T suppliers to see what they think about the idea.

Then the new gears would have to compete with the new Layne gearbox, that goes for $2600.

One thought I had a while ago, but never followed up on, was to get aome gears from Boston Gear and mount them on the old hubs and counter shaft. I have a lathe and I thought I could handle that. The old gears get their teeth all chewed up from bad gear shifting, while the hubs are still OK.


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