I can't remember the name of the product.....guess i have "madcow" Any help will be appreciated..
Originally marketed by the late Harold Bowden. When Harold died in April 2002, his obituary in the St Louis club's newsletter read in part:
"It has been said of Harold that he probably bought, sold, worked on, gave advice about, drove, sold parts for or at one time owned half the Model Tís in eastern Missouri.
Harold and his wife, Ruth, used to hold annual sales which were the stuff of legends. Harold was also known throughout the antique car hobby for his wood repair product, first called RSP and then known by the name Kwik-Poly. Harold had discovered the product when he was working for Ozark Air Lines and immediately recognized its value to the old car hobbyist. It is now used by car owners nationwide."
"Liquidwood" by Abatron. 1 to 1 epoxy system. As you brush it on and saturatye the wood it penetrates deep into the wood and cures into a very hard plastic: www.abatron.com/cms/buildingandrestorationproducts/woodrestorationmaintenance/li quidwood.html. Jim
Virtually all shelf offerings of epoxy products result from the repackaging of two basic components available from few chemical suppliers--from the popular 5 min. tubes to more sophisticated products such as formulated for boatbuilding industry. The 1 to 1's are the weakest and most affected by UV, moisture or chemical influence. These are generally what you will find at the hardware store. As the ratio of diglycidyl ether of bisphenol A to (part B) polyamines is increased, likewise (to a debatable point) the more enduring results we desire are improved upon. Anyone having more than occasional use for epoxies will experience an incredible cut, in cost per unit, by purchasing quart to gallon quantities (that mix in uneven ratios)from easily accessed suppliers such as West or System Three. While they've been forced, in self defense, to join the specialty market (revealed lately in their latest product listings), from their most basic laminating epoxies, you can duplicate what the countless repackagers offer for pennies on the dollar. Penetrate and seal ukky wood?--thin it with acetone. Machinable "liquid steel"?--add wood flour from your sander (with some gray pigment if you want it to look like the other stuff). Bullet proof, hard as a rock, filler?--add aluminum powder. It's full of sawdust and still sagging when you'd prefer it stood up like a man?--add a thixotropic agent such as silica. The litany could continue but it wouldn't advance the intended point which is, if anyone needs to saturate a lot of bad wood they'd rather not replace, there is a cheaper avenue than most of the expensive miracle plastic cure thingies we see advertised.
These guys make a pretty good product and they sell direct. www.smithandcompany.org
Thanks for the info, John. Do you work in the industry?
"Penetrate and seal ukky wood?--thin it with acetone.."
Will that cause it to set up in a few minutes, as Kwik Poly does?
Ralph, John must work in the industry. "Ukky wood" sounds like a technical term to me...
Ralph, My familiarity with epoxy stems from its use in building a couple of dozen wooden boats and repairing aluminum and glass hulls. I'm not familiar with Kwik Poly but again, outfits like System Three for instance, offer quick cure adhesives with varying cure times at a given temp.--Sys 3 has 5 min and 15 min (at 77 degrees)products avaiable from 1/2 pints to 10 gal. quantities. But these are 1 to 1 by volume and are only intended for quick spot tacking of parts until better slow set epoxy can finish the job. Epoxy cures are exothermic. Rate of cure halves or doubles with each 18 deg. of temp. change. But if something like a 3 hr. to tack epoxy is confined--say you've just mixed it in a paper cup under intense sunlight and someone rings you and yaks for too long--you may find that it has created enough heat to combust. Dick, My apology for misusing the word ukky to describe fungus laden wood. I had forgotten that ukky wood is recommended for the rungs of quick descent ladders.
I am glad this discussion is going on.I may have access to a couple very old wooden ladders and a couple rungs arent the best.This quick polly should be good for the purpose since it is approved for T spoke repair.T spokes are exsposed to alot more stresses than a ladder.
Where can quick poly be bought?The rungs are only cracked in 2 places at each end,should'nt take much to fix them.
Here's the Kwik Poly link Mack.
You are much too important and valuable to many, many people than to trust your body to an epoxy repaired ladder....please don't do that.
When I was little, my Mama said that it was illegal to paint a ladder, because it would hide rot and defects. Yet she had driven a Model T for many miles on wheels with painted spokes...
I'm not an advocate of plasticizing wood that has long ago decided to return to the earth. But, if it must be done, a quick setting epoxy is the poorest choice because it will penetrate very little before it begins to gell. Wood is less willing to absorb plastic at the rate many other liquids that can enter into it. To seal end grain I've often continued to apply resin for an hour, or longer, as the wood slowly draws it in.
Well I aint much of a wood worker so I didnt really know they were a problem as far as safty.People used them for years i fiqured they would be ok now. From what I understand these old ladders were used a church for repairs and painting and they are at least 80 to 100 years old.And they are about 25 to 30 feet long.I aint checked them out to close,just noticed the 2 rungs cracked and though well maby that can be delt with by turning some new 1's on a lathe or whatever.When I saw this epoxy that is good enough for T spokes,I fiqured I couldnt go wrong with that as a T weighs a tad more than I do.:>)
I hate to see antique stuff get wasted because of a minor problem.I aint been to the place where the ladders are in a couple weeks.I didnt lay claim on them yet,some body may have allready got them anyhow.I wasnt driveing a truck at the time I saw them.
I once saw someone advocating styrofoam cups melted in laquer thinner as a good coating to fix rotten spokes.
I would bet quick poly is a fantastic product to get that little three or four inch piece of rotten wood to take an uphostery nail, but not to resurrect rotten structural wood or spokes!
I don't believe in going higher on a ladder than I can jump. For working on my T era 2 story house, I bought a pile of used aluminum scaffolding about ten years ago, and it has been a good investment.
I know of one old T guy who was seriously and permanently injured falling off a ladder. It's unlikely he ever drove his T again.
Well I was told by 2 doctors and 2 different theropist and a fellow that test your physical abiltys to do work at this big lab that I should not under any circumstances get on a ladder above the first runner.My balance issues and random dizziness could cause me to fall from amoungst the ladder.
There are times I get about 2 to 3 rungs high on 1 if there is someone around to help make sure i dont fall off.There is just some stuff I cant tell someone else how to do,like work on the roof top equipment on my camper and such.
Mack, There was a youthful timber felling phase when I was fearless enough to walk out near to the end of a 200' douglas fir and buck off a top suspended 20' above the ground and stomp back to the stump, while the end I had just had my caulks in, continued rotating in 3' circles, from sudden loss of mass. At 63, I recently tripped over my own feet on the 200' walk to the shop and sustained a number of heckling injuries that will undoubtedly haunt me 'til death do I part. Sometimes you just have to accept new limitations.
Products that make wood "new again" may have some useful applications, but I would not recommend using it on parts that are critical safety items such as spoke wheels and ladders.
As to using it to repair an old church ladder, not only are you assuming the liability for yourself when you climb that ladder, you are assuming liability for everyone who climbs that ladder for as long as the church keeps it around and then for all future owners of the ladder. I would consider cutting it up for firewood and buying a new ladder.
So much information is now available with regards to replacing spokes in model T wheels thanks to the Fun Projects wheel press plans and DaGunny's how-to video, all available for free, that trusting your life to products that make wood "new again" is a foolish and unecessary risk.
Where did you get the idea that this product was "approved for T spoke repair"? The only thing Henry Ford approved for wooden spokes was second growth hickory.
I was able to locate another wood restoration epoxy that was advised to me years ago on the old forum. Some of you may remember it. Jim. Check out: www.tapplastics.com
Well,Jeff that is what I interpret from my reading.The question gets ask often of how to repair bad wood,and this seems to be the solution that is most common.I have read questions about it being used in spokes here on this forumn at some point not so long ago.And it does seem like someone used it.
Perhaps I may have stretched a tad to say,"approved for use on t spokes" but that has been my interpretation.
I wouldnt use it for spoke repair myself,as I would feel better finding a decent wheel or respokeing a wheel.I tried a couple "patchs" on some wheels and they failed before I got them finished.
You will also find only my 1 ton has wood spokes.My other projects use wire wheels that I can weld and repair with confidence.And I pick and choose the 1's I repair,not just any problem gets fixed.Only the 1's i feel like I can make safe.
NO! I wouldnt have been fixen that ladder for the church.I was going to be hauling it home out of thier way,and repairing it enough for preservation as a antique.As stated above,I cant use a ladder,not healthy.So please understand I was referenceing this for that reason.It is gone sadly so I cant get it anyhow.I was to late to save it.I seldom see those things anymore and wanted to keep 1 for antique purpose.
For safety reasons I would only use liquid wood restoration epoxies to restore only non load bearing wood items such as body framing on the Model T, or around the house, porch parts and window sills. Some Model T owners swear by its' ability to restore Model T spokes, but this, in my opinion, is very dangerous. Also, It is not intended for use on good wood as it cannot be absorbed into the wood (becoming, basically, a very expensive plastic coat), rather, it is intended for use in soft, dry rotted wood. If the wood is wet rotted, it should be covered or protected from rain and allowed to thoroughly dry. Most favorable results are had whenever all the wood is still present, though dry rotted and soft, whereby the original shape and contour are still present. Many folks, make the mistake of digging out the dry rotted wood, down to the good wood, then applying the liquid epoxy. This defeats the purpose and is a mistake. You want to leave the dry rotted wood, in order to maintain the original shape and contour of the piece you are restoring so that, when the epoxy hardens in the wood, the piece will be the size and shape it was when originally made.
I have found that the material works best when poured onto the piece and the puddle allowed to absorb deep into the wood. To facilitate this, a dike can be made of playdo or some sort of impervious clay that will hold the liquid in place over the dry rotted area so it can, more readily, be absorbed. The epoxy should be poured on until the wood can absorb no more. Enough epoxy should be bought for the job to be done all at the same time and not interrupted or put on hold for another day, because, once the liquid hardens, it will never be able to absorb more and you want it to go all the way to the bottom of the dry rotted wood until it is either totally saturated, or until it hits good wood and can absorb no more. The good thing about the Abatron "Liquid Wood" is that the window of workability is several hours in order to give the liquid plenty of time to be absorbed. I don't know about the workability time for the other products. The longer the cure time, the better, because if it cures too quickly, it may not have absorbed all it could have. Jim
I have restored a number of wooden tug boats.I would suggest you try C.P.E.S and go to the Rot Doctor .com and check it out. Restores rotted wood to better then new.It uses wood derivatives as it's base not from oil ,such as F/G resin.Remains flexible.Had success on rebuilding keels and stringers. Cheers RV