Metal body sill covers under turtle deck

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Metal body sill covers under turtle deck
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 07:01 pm:

Were the metal sill covers under the turtle deck in 1914 plain sheet metal with no bead that covered the wood or was there a bead lengthwise to match the trim on the body? I don't see them offered in the catalogs and need to make some or buy some if anybody has some or info/ pictures. They offer them for 1915 but I suppose they are a different size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Monday, December 28, 2015 - 09:29 pm:

Plain sheet metal, no bead uses a 3/4 round trim at the top edge. This is one piece from top of the body around to the back center same for the other side.In other words it meets in the very center in the back. Then a 3 inch piece to cover the seam in the tin.That is the way I have always seen them,
Charlie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - 02:54 pm:

Thanks Charlie. I used to work at a sheet metal shop. I can get some made then find some trim. I need the trim for the back of the body too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 - 04:48 pm:

I have a 1919 roadster that was missing some of the trim pieces. I found some aluminum rounded trim that was almost identical to the remaining original pieces.
McMaster-Carr has all kinds of this type of moulding and trim that looks almost identical.

I bought the missing sheet metal that goes around the wood under the turtle deck from Howell's sheet metal.
It didn't have the rounded edge so I used the rounded trim strips I got from McMaster Carr. There isn't any difference that I can tell from the original rounded edge.

Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 01:42 am:

Just to confuse the issue, in regard to the sill covers on the 15-22 style roadster body, I have found 2 different types. First is the type with the cast "1/2 round" moldings, they were two piece: left & right, each one piece from the top of the seat seam down and around the turtle deck to the center deck rear. These were screwed over sheet metal sill covers that were flat on the side. The other type I saw the cast "1/2 round molding only went from the top seat seam down to the bottom of the side panel where it met the turtle deck shelf. From there on to the center of the rear deck the sheet metal cover had a stamped in bead on the top of the side to match the body bead molding. Where the two sill covers met in the center deck rear, one had an extended tab to attach to the wood--the drivers side was cut straight and covered the tab of the other sill cover. The stamped bead type covers were also on a body that had a metal body frame bracket where the cowl fit (connected the upper ends of the dash pillar and the door hinge pillar). The body with the two long moldings (top of seat back down and around to rear center of deck) had formed wood pieces between the two pillars holding the cowl. I have had 2 bodies of each style over the years. So, the stamped bead type cover exists at least during the 17-22 body style. My question is when did the change occur? I presume the stamped bead sill cover came later? Or were each type made by different body suppliers possibly overlapping some years of production? I'm sure 1914 used the 2 long separate bead pieces and also 15-16. After that I don't know. Anybody have any observations or information on these changes? Thanks for any help. Hope I haven't muddied the waters too much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 01:59 am:

My unrestored 1917 roadster has the trim that is screwed on.

I circled one of the screws for you - note the slot.

The screws really blend into the trim and are not really noticeable; most of the slots are pretty much filled in by either paint or perhaps some putty at the factory.

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 07:45 pm:

Thanks Eric,

The extends the time frame for the separate bead covers to 1915-17. Hopefully we will be some more input to show when the change to the stamped bead sill covers took place. Thanks for the info on the screw detail. That's the way the bead is installed on and screws filled in on one of my bodies.

Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 08:49 pm:

Charlie, do you have any pictures of the moulding for the '14? I am wondering how it transitions from the body to the deck and how the pieces meet at the back. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 09:36 pm:

each side is all one piece they meet in the center in the back. then there is a short piece that covers the seem in the tin also so on the sides.i have the wood with the tin still on it from an early 15 thats the same. 1913 is not the same they have a piece that goes across the back. i will get pics if you still need it.charley


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 10:26 pm:

Here is a view of my '19. It shows the vertical piece in the middle and like Royce's car, you can see the slot head screws. Sorry, I got lost in the discussion about the two different styles. Which one have I got?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 04:21 pm:

Thanks Charlie. I think I have it figured out now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 04:24 pm:

Thanks Charlie. I think I have it figured out now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Henrichs on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 06:45 pm:

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the picture of your 1919. From what I can make out in the photo your sill covers look like the type that has the horizontal upper bead stamped right into the sheet metal cover. I'm basing this on the fact I can seen no screw heads on the upper edge bead (2 are visible on the short vertical separate bead piece). Also I don't see an bottom edge on the horizontal bead nor any trace of wax where the edge would meet the sill cover. I see wax in the crack where the separate vertical bead meets the sheet metal underneath. Also wax shows on the end of the upper right stamped in bead where it overlaps the left sill cover stamped bead (just above the attached vertical bead). This is the exact construction of one of my bodies.

In other words, The earlier bodies had a separate forged/cast bead screwed to a flat sided sill panel. The later bodies did away with the separate cast bead and stamped it right into the top edge of the sheet metal sill cover.

So what we have now is evidence the separate screwed on bead was used through about 1917. The stamped in bead on the sill sheet metal type at least started in 1919. We may pin this down yet! Thanks everybody for the pictures and info. Hope we can get some more input.

Dennis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 07:24 pm:

Ok Dennis, now I get it. Your first paragraph describes the trim on my car exactly. There is no trace of gaps or screws at all on the horizontal trim. There are two screws on the vertical piece. It only makes sense that Ford would have realized they could save some trim and lots of screws by simply stamping the metal. Actually, I never really noticed any of this trim before. This thread has been an eye opener that gives us more info in accurately dating cars from a time when Henry tried his best to make them all the same. I have to wonder if even later, they might have eliminated the separate vertical piece too. Hopefully, owners of Runabouts up to 1924 can check their cars and let us know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 09:33 pm:

I've got some of that half oval trim but it is all straight. It looks like it would be a pain to bend it to fit from the back of the body to transition into the under deck trim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By charley shaver- liberal,mo. on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 10:13 pm:

i made a jig to bend them on,must be red hot. the alum 1/2 oval bends a lot easier, Restoration supply has the alum . charley


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