Yolk ball split pin

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Yolk ball split pin
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:28 pm:

I had the car safety checked. I was missing about 5 pounds of split pins.
I believe I have them all except for the Yolk ball split pin.
Can someone please provide me a picture of a yolk ball with it installed?
I see it on the Lange’s web site. I just can't figure out where it is located.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:31 pm:

If you are referring to the cotter pin, just tighten the nut and put it in! Simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:37 pm:

Steve, the yoke ball doesn't get pins. It requires safety wire as the castellated nuts are run up on springs onto the studs. If you cotter it the stud will fall out! When that happens the radius rod can drop out.

It is not ideal to have that happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:44 pm:

Steve, I couldn't find a photo. I checked in Bruce's book. The studs started in 1913. You safety wire through one nut on one stud and then run the wire to the other nut and stud. The idea is that the nuts cannot come off and the studs cannot come off.

Your car looks 1926-1927 so that is how you need to do it.

Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:50 pm:

I was working down the club's safety checklist.
This was the last cotter pin that I couldn't find.
I did add the safety wire in the two places.
Now I am going to move to my question about the Ruckstell.

I will post that in a new thread.
Thank you gentlemen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Palmisano on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 09:37 pm:

Steve,
You wrote "I did add the safety wire in the two places." The correct way to do this is to safety wire both studs to each other. The image comes from the following thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/473702.html?1409007830 I just want to make sure you did it correctly. wishbone safety wire


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 09:52 pm:

I have added the safety wire here as well as the two lower bolts behind the transmission.
Thank you for the picture.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 03:32 am:

Question. In the picture that Tom P just posted, it appears the cap is pulled up tight against the socket. The springs also appear to be completely compressed. If so, why would springs be installed? In that case, all they are are spacers, washers would do the same thing. I've seen this before and I don't get it. If the cap is pulled up tight against the socket, springs have no purpose. Just wondering. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 10:26 am:

Because as the ball, cap and socket all wear, the spring pushes the cap up to take up the wear.

In the photo above, there is already a lot of wear because there is no space between the cap and socket.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

Erik, that's my point, the springs do no good when tightened down completely, so why put them in there? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 09:19 pm:

The cap should be removed and ground until there is a gap between the cap and the socket. Then the cap should be reinstalled as shown in the picture above.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 09:53 pm:

A ball shim would be better than grinding the cap, available from the vendors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 01:11 am:

Stephen, grinding the cap will indeed snug up the clearance, BUT, it can also lead to problems if done too much. When the cap is ground down, the ID is reduced, which does tighten things up. If done too much though, the ID becomes much smaller than the OD of the ball and that will start wearing a groove in the ball. Probably not too much of a problem on the wishbone, but can be on other ball and socket joints in the steering. If caps are ground, or filed down, the corresponding socket should be ground a like amount to keep the ID spherical. The cap on the drag link on my '25 coupe had been filed so much over the years, it was binding on the pitman arm ball. The ID was about 1/8" smaller on the cap than the socket. I had to build up the ball and find a better cap. IMHO, a shim, such as Frank suggested, would be better until the ball and/or socket could be repaired or replaced. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 12:21 pm:

Yes, I realize that which is why a wishbone with a ball in good shape should be used to minimize how much must be removed from the cap. If you have to grind off so much material from the cap that that can be a problem then the wishbone, pitman arm, or tierod yoke ball is shot and must be either replaced or repaired.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

Sorry for the silly question.
But should the yolk ball and socket have some grease? About how much spring should the socket have? Can someone post a picture of it done correctly?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 03:48 pm:

If all the parts are good condition, with a round and true wishbone ball and good socket in the crankcase..




...the install of the cap and springs over the studs would look like this..



...and yes, the wishbone socket needs a slug grease when installed. REF: Paragraph 104, Ford Service book.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

Here's how I do it.

First I grease the ball good, then I install a cup, then I insert the ball and hold it with a jack, then another cup, then approximately 5 (maybe 6) lock washer on each stud , then a castle nut tightened almost all the way flat on the lock washers and then safety wire the studs together. I install a cup on top and one below the ball bringing the wishbone down and the caster forward. Been that way for a long time and it works good for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 08:35 pm:

Here's a picture


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 11:59 pm:

Make sure the studs are tight!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 09:58 am:

To me, the yoke ball is the removable spindle connecting rod yoke, of which there are two varieties. The part number is 2721B. I think you guys are missing the question, or is it me?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 11:40 am:

Oh, Tie Rod. Here are a few pics.

Taken from the front


Taken from the rear


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 11:57 am:

Taken from above


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 01:21 pm:

Again, I have to ask. In the pictures that Dan Treace posted, the cap is tight up against the socket, at least it appears to be. What good can the springs do, other than leave slack in the cap so the ball can be pulled more easily? What am I missing? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:39 pm:

In 1913 and earlier the wishbone cap was held in place with two cap screws, tightened and safety wired. Later that year they added the springs, which are really stiff. They are not drawn up tightly. The springs keep the cap tight, and of course safety wired.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 11:36 pm:

I'm with Larry on what question was being asked.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 04:26 am:

Herb, if you are referring to my question, I just don't see what good the springs do if the cap is tightened up against the socket and the springs have some slack. All that can do is let the ball come out of the socket because the springs will compress. If there is a space between the cap and socket because the ball is larger than the socket and cap, it makes perfect sense. Otherwise, the springs serve no purpose. Again, what am I missing? By the way, this thread needs to go on the 2016 forum. JMHO, as always. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 09:48 am:

David: The wishbone ball is the same size as the socket. The cap fits snugly against the socket, with clearance. It is to be lubed with wheel bearing grease or whatever, and the cap remains in place with the tension from the springs which are not fully compressed, but almost so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 12:38 pm:

As Larry posted correct.

The ball is 1.250" diameter and must be round without egg shape wear. Same with the socket in the crankcase, it needs to be round to match, and not wallowed out oversize as many are.

The springs take up wear than can occur, the wishbone moves with the axle as the axle takes the twists and turns of the front wheels going over terrain. That ball joint needs to move, but not be loose. So make sure its sung, but not tight, and add grease. Inspect that joint from time to time also. Accessory caps spring loaded inside the cup are available and can work for joints that are worn. IMO, use good parts in spec., to begin with. :-)



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Bourgeois on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 10:00 pm:

Thank you gentlemen. I have started a thread in 2016 "yolk from 2015"
This has been a very interesting discussion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 09:54 am:

Yoke:

yoke

Yolk:

yolk

:-)


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