1914 Magneto details

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1914 Magneto details
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 02:39 pm:

I took apart another T engine, this time a 1914. This one still has its original magneto, which is a little different than earlier or later ones. I am wondering if anyone knows the date range that each style was used?

The flywheel magnets are the thin ones, used from 1909 - late 1916 I think. The keepers are unusual, being wider than the ones used from 1911 - 1912 or 1913. Notice that the earliest 1909 magnets are forged steel, while the later magnets are bent extruded steel. Keepers are different in each of the styles. The flywheel used in 1914 is the same one used until 1919.

Compare them in the pictures below:

1909:


1912:


The 1914 in question:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 02:44 pm:

The coil ring used in 1914 is also interesting, and different from 1912 or 1915. The 1914 coil ring is a cast iron bracket, with single stack coils. This is a big improvement over earlier Model T magneto brackets, which were stamped steel sheet. I suspect this coil bracket was only used for the single model year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:14 pm:

Royce, the picture indicated as 1912 has a ring gear!
I guess you are showing the style of keeper used in 1912. Are you then saying the wider style indicated a1914 was used until 1919. I thought that the style on my 1917 were the smaller style that you say are for 1912. Mind you I am sure the motor was not untouched between 1917 and 1980 when I purchased it as a wreck from the back yard of the Harrahs Museum


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:27 pm:

Tony,

Yes, the 1912 has a ring gear now. It did not originally of course!

The wider keepers on the 1914 magnets - I don't know what years they were used.

The thicker magnets appeared I believe in the 1915 model year, perhaps Trent or someone else has an exact date. The 3/4" magnets used the standard keeper that continued until 1927. Those thicker magnets came with a double stack oval coil, and another style of cast iron magneto coil bracket / plate. That style was used until some time in 1917, again I do not know an exact date but would love to know.

The standard coil bracket came along in 1919, and of course the flywheels were then machined for the ring gear.

1919 single stack oval coil and magneto asembly:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:41 pm:

Might as well show the 1912 coil ring assembly:


The coil bracket is stamped steel, without the holes as seen in 1909.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:42 pm:

Here I what I found in the 1914 engine I rebuild a few years ago.

Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 04:52 pm:

Andre I think that magneto and coil ring assembly is 1919 or later. Flywheel is not cut for a ring gear so it is earlier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 05:01 pm:

The safety wire on the '09 keeper screws and the magnet bolts is mostly applied wrong, and will allow them to loosen! The one on the '14 looks right to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 05:13 pm:

David,

That's how it looked when I disassembled that early 1909 engine. It has new stainless aircraft wire today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 06:40 pm:

Royce, how early was the T that the 1909 flywheel came from?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 07:52 pm:

Serial number 904.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 08:33 pm:

I have an engine with a casting date of 7/11/13 and the magneto has the wider keepers. The motor does not have a serial number on it however so I do not know when it wound up being used in a car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 10:36 pm:

Royce,

I have the wide magnet clamps on #312,4XX. It is July 11, 1913, stub shaft date, July 17, 1913 engine assembly. Casting date June 19, 1913. Forged coil ring with the small hole to replace the brass magnet screws is like your 1914 picture above. Dodge flywheel.

My coils look like your 1912 except the metal center is smaller diameter and round. Can you show me what the coils look like on your 1914?

Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on January 06, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 10:13 am:

Ken,

Here's the other side of the 1914 coil ring. The transmission stub is stamped 2 11 14 and the block casting date is shown.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:25 am:

I'll show what I found in my "1915" transmission, but that's in quotes because I believe the car was assembled about forty years ago, so there's no telling what's kosher or isn't.


Curved magnet clamps, 3/4" magnets (actually more like 23/32"). The transmission stub is unmarked. The #3257 magnet supports are brass.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:30 am:

Royce thanks for your knowledge, your an asset to the Model T community!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:34 am:

Steve,

Yours looks like a 1912 -1918 flywheel with 1919 - later magnets and coil ring. This is a sturdy and powerful setup that is exactly the same as I have in my '15 and is what I am installing in my '14.

Newly rewound 1919 - 27 coil ring from Wally Szumuski:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 12:59 pm:

Actually there were three types of "single stack" mags: 1/4" copper, no starter notch: May 1917 to Dec. 1918; 1/4" copper with notch, Dec. of '18 to April 1921, and 3/16" wide copper (all had the notch) from April of '21 through the end of production.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 01:13 pm:

Royce,

Thanks. That is what my magneto coil looks like.

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 08:54 am:

There is some info in the encyclopedia about the preparation for a more powerful magneto during 1914 to be able to support the electric headlamps on the 1915 style cars. The change to 3/4" magnets and new coils was finished at September 14, 1914 at engine #578,042.
http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc14.htm

"MAY 2 Acc. 575, Ford Archives
Parts specified for “1915 coil unit.” These parts are the pieces that make up the coil itself, not the coil box. Part numbers ranged from T6740 to T6794."

"JUL 20 Acc. 575, Ford Archives
T5634 (new) magneto coil assembly (16 required) to be used after the first 250,000 1914 cars."

"SEP 4 Engine production records, Ford Archives
New style coils” began with 572,437."

"SEP 14 Engine production records, Ford Archives
“Start 3/4-inch magnets with 578,042.”"


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