Freeze plugs

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Freeze plugs
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 04:09 am:

I have ordered a set of each type of freeze plug from a parts supplier..brass and steel plated. What is the pros and cons for either? I know about using a nickle, but I just want to put an actual plug in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 04:49 am:

Pro- brass doesn't rust out, con- steel does!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 04:52 am:

I was always told that brass will out last the steel but the steel ones will force you at some point to remove them and clean the water jacket out because the steel will rust through, you'll see all the crud behind the plugs and be compelled to do that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 06:52 am:

Why not use some anti freeze like ethylene glycol with corrosion inhibitors in your cooling system. Then you will minimize the the problem with rust in the block.If you do, I don`t think it matters much if the plugs are brass or steel. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 11:14 am:

I use the brass but heck cars have been running the steel ones for years and years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 06:50 pm:

Buffalo head nickels. The look period correct,and pretty neat... Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

http://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG87.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 07:23 pm:

Mark, I found buffalo's when I pulled a 1920 engine out of my center door. There cool.. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 08:28 am:

I think the nickles are cheaper too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 09:20 am:

Yes, they are. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 09:43 am:

Well, buffalo nickles in good collectible condition can cost some money but the common ones where the year has worn off are cheap at ebay :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 10:06 am:

What Permatex does everyone like to use in the plug hole?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 10:15 am:

#2. See the link Mark posted.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 12:13 pm:

Back in 1920 you might have bought a dozen for a nickel. Any body know what the cost was back then???? Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 12:49 pm:

Part #3019-B, listed in the 8-5-28 parts book at 1 each. There's a typo which says 2 per car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 01:38 pm:

Permatex #1 works goo, but I prefer using JB Weld.

Clean the hole where the core plug goes with a small file until you get shiny bare metal. Wipe clean with a cleaning solvent. Coat the nickel on the inside with JB Weld then install it. You won't have any trouble with it ever again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 10:07 pm:

Untill the block freezes, but I have yet to see freeze cracks on that side of the block...! These were not put there to prevent blocks from cracking but to get the casting sand out. If they wanted freeze plugs they should have been on the other side. Also called Welch or core plugs.
Read the whole thing and the nickle thing comes into a whole new light. :-)

Core plug

Sand cores are used to form the internal cavities when the engine block or cylinder head(s) is cast. These cavities are usually the coolant passages. Holes are designed into the casting to support internal sand forms, and to facilitate the removal of the sand after the casting has cooled. Core plugs are usually thin metal cups press fitted into the casting holes, but may be made of rubber or other materials. In some high-performance engines the core plugs are large diameter cast metal threaded pipe plugs.[2]

Core plugs can often be a source of leaks due to corrosion caused by cooling system water.[3] Although modern antifreeze chemicals do not evaporate and may be considered "permanent", anti-corrosion additives gradually deplete and must be replenished. Failure to do this periodic maintenance accelerates corrosion of engine parts, and the thin metal core plugs are often the first components to start leaking.

Difficulty or ease of core plug replacement depends upon physical accessibility in a crowded engine compartment. In many cases the plug area will be difficult to reach, and using a mallet to perform maintenance or replacement will be nearly impossible without special facilities for partial or complete removal of the engine. Specialized copper or rubber replacement plugs are available which can be expanded by using a wrench when access is a problem, though engine removal may still be required in some cases.
Welch plug

The Welch plug, (misnomer: Welsh plug), is a thin, domed disc, of a metallic alloy, which is pressed, convex side out, into a casting hole and against an internal shoulder.[4] Alternatively a non-ferrous metal such as brass offers improved corrosion prevention. When struck with a hammer, the dome collapses slightly, expanding it laterally to seal the hole. Other core plugs have a dish design, so that when pressed into the casting hole the tapered sides form the seal.[5]

According to Nevin Hubbard of the M.D. Hubbard Spring Company, the Welch plug was originally designed in the 1900s by the Welch brothers at the Welch Motor Car Company of Pontiac, Michigan. Hubbard claims that "at that time core holes in the engine blocks were fitted with pipe plugs. During one of these run-ins a pipe plug backed out. In order to get back on the road one of the brothers drove a quarter or half dollar into the hole. From this they developed the Welch plug, some with the help of my great grandfather Martin Hubbard. They then patented the plug and the M.D. Hubbard Spring Company become the sole manufacturer of the Welch plug for the life of the patent."[6]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 10:34 pm:

Thank you all so much for your input. I found Steve pictures that mark posted very help full.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 11:35 pm:

My new brass plugs with sealer worked well for a short time until one sprang a leak. I also turned to JB Weld and the problem went away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 11:37 pm:

I got period correct nickels in mine paid .08 each plus tax still cheaper


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 05:13 am:

Is there an exact date for the finish of the screw in plug?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 05:47 am:

If I interpret the encyclopedia right it was
8th of dec 1913.
Parts books also stop the 1/2" pipe plug in 1913.


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