Speedster front axle

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Speedster front axle
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:27 am:

I would like to build a period correct speedster and I really like the look of the style where the axle and spring is moved out in front of the original cross member. I don't want to use the "laurel style brackets. I have seen pictures in "Model T Secrets" and "Speed & Sport" books, but I would really like to get information from people who have done this type of conversion. Thank you very much.Mitch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:39 am:

Lang's has a bracket for that purpose: https://www.modeltford.com/item/2691LB.aspx
Should be easy enough to fabricate much cheaper, though. Then you'll also need to lengthen the front radius rods to reach the new position of the front axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 11:09 am:

Thank you for the reply. I should also mention I want to fabricate the brackets myself. Sincerely Mitch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 11:12 am:

Sorry was distracted when I issued the last post and did not see the part were you mentioned fabrication do you have any idea what the dimensions of the flat stock. Thank you . Mitch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 01:20 pm:

The bracket shown in Lang's ad seems plenty hokey to me although it was/is used in several speedsters. I prefer other methods of making a *suicide front end* such as a Z-shaped bracket bolted to the front crossmember and extending in front of the radiator. This allows for a variation of front end lowering dictated by the location of the spring mount. I believe this method is period correct.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 05:24 pm:

John can you or anybody else post some pictures of the Z-shaped brackets. I have seen drawings in Model T "speed secrets" , also "suicide front end" is there something inherently wrong with this method or just some poor craftsmanship if done incorrectly. Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 06:32 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 06:34 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 07:50 pm:

Mitch,
I'm curious to know why you don't want to go down the "Laurel" underslung route.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

Sorry the photo is not closer. I did Z brackets and modified a front cross member. Worked very well. I also moved the engine back 6 inches as per research of period racers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 08:13 pm:

Here are two with z plate.








Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 08:59 pm:

I'm making z plates actually. I took my grandfather's front end apart and made a pattern of his homemade z bracket, and had 3 more blanks custom pressed out of 1/2".

My other runabout has underslungs and I'm taking them out and putting in a Z plate so I can use upper and lower radius rods on the axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:34 pm:

Thank all of you for your posts. Rob there is nothing wrong with the "laurel style brackets. I just like the way old speedster look with the spring out front.Mitch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:53 pm:

I need to get better pictures, but here is the Z-bracket on my period dirt car chassis. It also had a 2nd front crossmember added about 6" behind the original one to move the engine back.



As you can see, the Z-bracket made a convenient hitch when the frame was later turned into a welding cart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Moruya, NSW, OZ on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:55 pm:

Mitch,
Yes, I've got to admit it does look "tough" in a senior sort of way.
The reason I asked was because I've used the "Laurel" brackets and wondered if there was a problem with them.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 08:11 am:

A little more work. A "Z" bracket and a Model T rear crossmember laid on it's side. Enjoy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 01:22 pm:

This is the way i did it on my 1923 jalopy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 03:28 pm:

Nice work Joe and Thomas. Joe, where are you sourcing your tape?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Holman on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 04:51 pm:

Nice looking front end, Joe. Looks like the original front cross member is moved back, correct? How far?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 07:08 pm:

Jim & Dan, the tape is 2" black friction tape from McMaster Carr. The front crossmember is move back approx 6". It's on a race car so anything goes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 07:12 pm:

Perfect Joe, thanks. I need to get some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 07:24 pm:

If you want to private message me with your address, if I have any left I'd be happy to send it to you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 07:52 pm:

Oh heck, that is awfully kind of you but you don't have to do that. I'm going to need quite a bit.

It looks like 3m 1755?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 08:09 pm:

Joe Andulics - Not to "derail" the main topic of this thread, however, the photo of your axle and front suspension is interesting Joe. My only question is why the pivot points at the ends of each friction shock absorber are placed so close to the center line of the chassis where there is minimum vertical movement of the axle as caused by road conditions. Seems like those shocks would be even more effective if the shocks were turned around and mounted with the pivot point out closer to the wheels where there is maximum vertical movement of the axle/wheel. Just wondering,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tyrone Thomas - Topeka KS on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

found some under construction photos


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 09:47 pm:

Harold, the car is a restoration of an original Model T powered sprint car. The only original "engineering" I changed were those that I felt were unsafe. I expect the shocks were there simply to tune the suspension for a left hand turn and nothing more. Here's a similar but different setup (photo from Old Motor) Thanks, Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitchell Sine on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

Thank all of you for your posts and all the great pictures, they are a great help. I have some more questions should I cut the radius rod and put extensions in it or should I make up new ones and attach them to the side of the frame. I would like to use the T steering column do I have to move this forward being that the axle is moved forward to keep the geometry correct? I have a complete machine shop and welder, torches etc. so fabrication is not a problem. What I need most is help from you gentleman that has been there and done this. Thank you. Mitch


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 01:18 pm:

Mitch,
In response to the questions in your last thread:
See my profile...it shows the *Z* front axle treatment and the wishbone is lengthened to accommodate the engine setback and forward axle. (The split-wishbone approach seems to be something done in later years.) Accordingly the steering shaft is lengthened also. That is easy to do by cutting the shaft and welding in a length of steel rod. If you are uneasy about the strength, weld a piece of thick-wall tubing over the area. It can all be hidden inside the column.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James M. Riedy, Sandusky, Ohio on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 01:22 pm:

In the last picture that Joe posted of the racer I can't see any type of spring, unless it is hidden between the radius rods behind the spring. Could those be a sort of spring instead of shocks? One thing I do see is the nut on the passenger side radius rod appears to be very loose. Jim


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