Rear Axle rebuild question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Rear Axle rebuild question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 12:06 pm:

When rebuilding the rear axle, replacing thrust washers and thrust plate pins, evaluating gears and differential, does a person have to rebuild the driveline at the same time? All the threads I have looked at show driveline and rear axle rebuilding at the same time. I have the manual, just wondering which is correct. Thanks!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 12:35 pm:

Hi Marvin,

I strongly recommend that you inspect the drive shaft, pinion bearing and the rest while you are going through the rear axle.
I was ever so thankful that I looked at mine during the rear axle rebuild as the drive shaft tube, the pinion nut and woodruff key were the only parts which could be reused, Everything else was worn to the point of being scrap metal. I was surprised that it moved as well as it did, a testament to the excellence of the Ford metallurgy and engineering departments.

Good luck with your project. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 12:36 pm:

Yes.

Meaning 'drive line' as every rear of the universal 4th main ball cap..... i.e. the complete assembly you have after pulling the rear end and torque tube from the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 03:54 pm:

Everything I am putting together is from individual parts. I have a couple of rear axles, 4 torque tubes, a couple of good drivelines and I intend to go Fun Projects on the driveshaft part. It sounds like I should rebuild everything at once. Ring gear is marginal so I am going to get a better one. These parts haven't been behind a Model T motor for decades.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 05:04 pm:

Everything from the U joint to the rear wheels is one unit. The ring and pinion gears are adjusted by moving the ring gear right or left with shims between the gear and the carrier. However, the carrier can be moved right and left by adjustment of the thrust washers, so that you might not even need to shim the ring gear. The pinion is moved in and out by the distance between the drive shaft outer housing and the rear axle housings and the driveshaft end play is determined by the thrust surface on the universal joint, so everything is dependent on the other to get everything in adjustment. I would recommend the book published by the club on the rear axle or on the Ruckstell Axle. There are step by step details on how to make all the various adjustments. Another thing to bear in mind is that the ring and pinion gears are adjusted when new and sometimes after there is wear on them, the clearance must be more than the original or they will bind up or howl. Anyway, inspect everything and replace as needed. Note, there is a new type pinion bearing which is adjustable. I have never used that type, so someone else might be better to advise you if you use that type.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 05:34 pm:

Thanks Norm! I just got the manual by Glen Chaffin and I will proceed to put everything together in one rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis K Anderson on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 08:05 am:

John Stoltz of Model t Ranch makes an adjustable pinion kit. check it out at modeltranch.com It is adjustable both ways. As someone always says on here I've never had any problems
Dennis K anderson
Maryville Tn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 10:03 am:

Excuse me for jumping in here but, since my project has been started by others and most mechanics are done except the rear I can see has never been apart, I can find no end play at all on either rear wheel, am I safe to not pull the rear apart at this time?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 10:21 am:

No. If you're right in guessing that it's never been apart, it has the original Babbitt thrust washers. Any driving you do with them is a gamble. Maybe you're guessing wrong and they were replaced forty years ago. The only way to know is to open it up and look.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 10:36 am:

Even if the old Babbitt washers have been replaced... you just don't know what is waiting to happen to that rear axle unless you inspect it all. Do the whole axle, from wheel hubs to the engine.



Hyatt bearing sleeve for the drive shaft ready to fracture and cause a bunch of trouble inside the pinion bearing housing....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 01:10 pm:

Thomas, I am new to this but I am also replacing the thrust washer pins. Those can let the steel and bronze washers float loose and cause problems in a rebuild. There are two pins in the axle housing, one in the differential on each side. The pints actually hole the steel washers on each side while the bronze rotates in between.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marvin C. Miller on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 01:12 pm:

Thomas, I am new to this but I am also replacing the thrust washer pins. Those can let the steel and bronze washers float loose and cause problems in a rebuild. There are two pins in the axle housing, one in the differential on each side. The pints actually hold the steel washers on each side while the bronze rotates in between.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Sunday, January 10, 2016 - 04:43 pm:

Marvin,

Consider the driveline to be part of the rear end and yes, you should rebuild it all. Why wouldn't you, while you've got everything apart? One is no less important than the other.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Quigley on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 11:25 am:

I am at the point of installing the drive shaft. I have tried to put the bearing sleeve on the drive shaft without luck. I have cooled the shaft and heated the bearing, but I just cannot get it on. Local machine shops do not have a press to accommodate the drive shaft length. What are my options???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 11:33 am:

After dealing with that very problem, I cut off the partially-installed and thoroughly stuck new sleeve sleeve and got the Fun Projects pinion bearing. I will never go back. There are a lot of people who have had the same experience who will tell you the same thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 12:01 pm:

IF you were closer Tom, I could push it on for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 12:58 pm:

I lifted my hydraulic press up and set it between a couple of tables to get enough height to press the bushing on. In retrospect, I could have just laid the press on its side to do the job. Maybe you can convince one of the machine shops to do the same? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 01:28 pm:

Marvin, The Drive line is the first thing you rebuild when you rebuild a rear end. You need it to have no end play when you set up your ring gear and pinion clearance. Steve, I agree, using a modern pinion bearing assembly eliminates the difficult step of installing the Drive shaft sleeve. We make the pinion bearing also. However, we recommend that you not just rely on the single split shaft collar to keep everything in position. We set the end play with the shaft collar and then set end play with the Drive shaft bushing clearance to the U-joint just like you would do with a normal rear end. This gives you insurance that end play stays fixed even if the shaft collar comes loose as many do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 04:50 pm:

Just in the process of placing the pinion bearing and pinion gear on a new shortened drive shaft for mounting a new KC Warford trans.



This is my 7th install of Fun Projects modern pinion bearing. Real simple, less parts, no fuss. Slip on the retaining collar, slip on the new bearing mounted into a rebuilt/used pinion housing, grease and install the taper bearing.

Cut down the key and add the pinion gear, and nut. Back down the retaining collar to set the pre-load. Lock and loaded! So simple but elegant.

Best part is the pinion and ring lash is adjusted at the rear, spacing thrust washers. Not real difficult, as no attention has to be made to the universal joint bushing face, as needed with the stock adjustments.





But experience provides the extra step of facing off a new universal joint torque tube bronze bushing to just be sure a reproduction or original universal joint won't gall on the bushing face. New bushings, like the bronze thrust washers, are made fat for the necessary trimming with the original Ford pinion bearing assembly.

Have already faced off in the table lathe the new bushing so to prevent any interference. And remind yourself to drill a grease hole in the new bushing after driving it into the front of the torque tube for the oil cup there! Dotted line reminder on the new part :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 02:47 pm:

Ok I found the book by Glen Chaffin on rebuilding the rear axle and ordered it, I have made up my mind this is going to be a longer term project than I first had thought (and another birthday this week for me) so I do not have plans for many more long term projects! But I have to make this as good a car as I can for the next owner, and safety is always more important than shiny stuff. New rear fenders arrived today, 12 days since ordering, Rootlieb is in a slow period and wait time is short! Good looking fenders, one is in the house as the shop is way to cold to even think of going near right now! Sheesh, now I have to have new front fenders too, I could never get the old ones to look right along side the new rears. Now when it warms up some I'll make a pair of tall jack stands so I can pull the rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 11:52 pm:


When you remove the rear axle an easy way to support the car is with a piece of 2" square tubing between the muffler and the rear spring. This puts your tall jack stands in front of the axle shafts so the assembly can be pulled back easily. Here's the exciting action: https://youtu.be/8mZzAt9Q_4k.


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