Newbie question on 1915 firewall panel. Metal topper?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Newbie question on 1915 firewall panel. Metal topper?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 10:28 am:

Taking a speedster and creating a WWI Light Patrol Vehicle, so does not have to be 100percent authentic, but I'd like to do the best I can. I have the new repo parts for a 1915 representation.
My wooden direwall is just that, one piece of wood with the holes drilled in it for the necessary parts and wires. While searching the parts catalogues, I'm see reference to metal panels that run along the top on some moedls, and some years, but not all.

Would a 1915 have some sort of metal trim or dash type edging to it? And what would this part be caled so I can look for one.

Thank you. I'll hang up and listen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 10:42 am:

It was used from late 1919, I think, so not period correct for 1915. (though a good idea that keeps some of the rain off the coil box)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/195748.html?1299464121


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 10:47 am:

The 1915 has a steel skin over the top and front of the firewall. The area inside the hood is bare metal, the area outside the hood is covered with metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 11:24 am:

I do have a hood support that is a metal curved piece that bolts to the firewall and allows the hood to rest against it and the support rod to attach to. Hood former?

In addition to that, there is a metal skin on the entire outside of the wooden firewall?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 11:31 am:

So, is a firewall shield what I need?

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_model_t/productmedia/catalog_product_gallery/i ndex/id/435079/image/0/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 11:38 am:

oh, 1915.. didn't think right when I wrote above, was thinking 1917 for US WW1 era..
Here's a thread that shows the hood former that covered the firewall on the 1915/16 cars: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/168590.html?1289401524


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 11:42 am:

The sheet metal part from Mac's you showed goes on from the passenger side and covers a cut out in the firewall for the engine that is real close there. Together with the floorboards it closes off the engine compartment from the passenger compartment :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 12:03 pm:

So the firewall shield covers the top edge and the inside of the firewall and the hood former goes on the outside to attach the hood. The remainder of the outside of the firewall is exposed wood? Painted, of course, but still just wood and no outside metal skin?

I've got the two brass brackets from frame to firewall as well. They mount on the hood side of the firewall, not the floorboard side?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 12:21 pm:

The 1915 hood former is a metal piece that mounts to the front of the body. It acts as the 'cowl' for the hood. Unique for 1915-1916.

The firewall is wood, no metal covering.

The hood former is fitted over the firewall and bolts to the body. You can use the 1915 hood former on non Ford bodies like depot hacks, bolted to wood of the body to hold the hood.








Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 12:32 pm:

The 1915 used a metal cover on the out side that was also the rear hood support if you are using the box like hood used through 1916. Then there was the small shield like a half moon that went on the passenger side to close the gap of the cutout where the back of the block sits.
Up to and into early 1915 (on some cars and bodies)there was a rear hood support that just bolted to the dash but did not cover it. if you use that type then just cover the exposed edge of the dash with brass edging. Rogers post shows the 1915-1916 parts.

Which radiator are you planning on using, brass or the 1917 up type? That really determines what and how you hold the hood at the rear. The two types talked about will work for the brass radiator. If you are using the 1917 up style that changes things. Except for some minor differences the 1915 to 1922/23 firewall/bulkhead/dash are pretty much the same.

The brass brackets mount on the engine side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 10:37 pm:

I've got a 1915 brass radiator that I will be using on this project. The person I purchased most of my parts from sold me the new hood, brass radiator, the wooden firewall and the sheet metal U shaped hood former.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, January 11, 2016 - 10:44 pm:

Yes, the depot hack is the look I will end up with. Light express open wood body with no windshield. So just woden firewall with carriage lights on the outside and the hood former to keep the hood in place. Bare wood on outside of firewall.
Metal shield on inside of firewall?
I'm a little confused because I don't see any holes drilled in these shields other than mounting holes for wires, and choke rods to run from the drivers side to the engine. Coil box mount? amp gage mount"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 09:43 am:

Robert -- The hood former is visible in Dan's last pic, and is the black piece in his middle pic. It surrounds the top and sides of the wooden firewall, and makes a shelf for the hood to rest on. The dash shield (or "firewall shield" according to Mac's) goes at the bottom of the wooden firewall below the coil box and nearly touches the engine head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 10:25 am:


Not a great picture, but this is a 1915 dash shield. The top floorboard covers most of the firewall opening, and this goes below the coil box to cover the small part of the opening that's above the floor board. As Mike says, it's mighty close to the back of the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 11:01 am:

I missed your last questions.


The 1915 coil box bolts on the firewall like this. Ignore the wrong dash shield and top floorboard used here.

There is no ammeter in a 1915 Ford. Without a generator and a 1919-1927 electrical system, there's no need for one.


If you want to go the inauthentic route and "upgrade" the electrical system, you can use this truck instrument panel sold by all the parts dealers. It was used in the TT and is usually found in 1919-1927 hacks and deliveries. This one has a block-off plate in place of the ammeter because it's for a non-starter truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 12:07 pm:

Robert

Since you are making the body, just use 'Google Images' in your browser and add Model T hack or WW1 and see lots of photos.

The easier and more likely what was done originally is to build the body with a flat 'dash' and add the firewall with holes for coil box,etc. Then cut out of wood an angled wood frame to allow the early folding hood to lay on it. Simple.

If you use the unique '15-'16 hood former in metal, that is expensive, will cost $100 and up for a good one, and it is really only for use on the Model T body from the factory. A commercial aftermarket body for early brass T would not use that part.

Just be sure to measure to the radiator from a point where the hood will rest on the radiator to where you put the wood 'hood rest', as you want to be sure the fit is correct and the hood will go between the radiator and body.






My depot hack used the later steel hood, but you can see in the photo the 'dark' piece of wood surrounding the firewall and dash, that piece is about 3'4" thick, and is cut in the shape of the hood, so that is where the rear edge of the hood lays flat.

All you need to do is similar, except your wood former will be angled pieces to mate to the early angled hood tops.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 04:10 pm:

I'm starting to visualize this now. The curved top of the firewall shield was throwing me off, like it went at the TOP of the wooden firewall instead of the floor boards up, ending well short of any holes in the wooden firewall.

I've got the metal hood former, so might as well use it, just bolt it to the wooden firewall. I've got a small angle bracket for the switch and amp meter than may not be period correct, but looks pretty "industrial" so I can mount that right to the wooden firewall and not need a dash panel per se.

So unless I just want the firewall shield tootect against kicking the wooden firewall, I really don't need any metal skin or topper on the wooden firewall.

If I can find a firewall shield second hand or for the right price, it might be a nice look on a "military" type vehicle. I guess I could always just run a flat piece of 18 gage sheet metal up the firewall and give it a rivet look or sheet metal screws that don't go all the way through the wood firewall.

Thanks for the input and photos. I've got some express body plans coming, maybe it will show me some firewall details as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 05:10 pm:

The dash shield in my picture is home made. As you said, I cut it out of some 18 gauge sheet metal.


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