Canadian car details

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Canadian car details
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 08:18 pm:

By request, here are photos of a supposed, 1918 Canadian car so that we can learn more about Canadian Model Ts. This car is not a great example, it appears to be a Touring made into a truck but, it's a start. Hopefully others can post more photos and info over time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 08:24 pm:

And already, I have spotted something. This car DOES have ribbed pedals. I took these photos from the full site and they are much clearer. The ribs may be somewhat worn but they are there. Just barely visible. One mystery solved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

Your eyes are better than mine. Thank You for posting these. My car is also a touring /cut off pickup of the '25ish vintage. There is still valuable info to be had even though they aren't as they were built by Henry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 08:39 pm:

Dave,
The steering wheel is upside down and I think I detect Robertson screws.I am looking at this on my phone so I could be wrong.
Best regards,John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

John, good eye on the Robertson screws. There is one on the right side of the dash too. If you look through the steering wheel, you can also see the "Made in Canada" plaque on the dash even though it has been painted black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wes Nelson ........Bucyrus, MO on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 08:07 am:

I really like the bed. What are Robertson screws, confused minds want to know?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 08:28 am:

Square-socket drive screws, common in Canada since the inventor was a Canadian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._L._Robertson


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 08:58 am:

Wes, the screws can be a helpful identifying feature. I can spot most Canadian Ts in other ways but, when it comes to the Model A which I know much less about, the first thing I do is glance at the dash, if it has Robertson screws, I know it's a Canadian A. I think they help identify the improved T as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 09:04 pm:

Years ago, I had a USA 1916 center-door sedan. A very good friend of mine had a Canadian built 1916 center-door sedan. His had lots of Robertson screws. Mine had none. Other than that, his car and mine had many details alike that very few other center-door sedans had. His had the original under the rear seat gasoline tank still in place. Mine had the tank under the front seat. Otherwise, his and my rear seat risers were identical, and the only two quite like them I ever found out of at least three dozen center-door sedans that I looked at. Other details between the two indicated (but could NOT prove) that both cars were originally late brass era cars. Both cars had been through earlier restorations that made anything on them suspect.

A little side drift, but I just thought I would put this out there again because of the Robertson screws thing.
Again, thank you Dave W for posting these photos!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins Winnipeg,Canada on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 12:03 am:

Its a right hand drive, thus the reason why Canadian cars have an extra door.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins Winnipeg,Canada on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 12:08 am:

If my memory is correct the right and left coasts were still British and driving on the wrong side of the road until 1917 or so.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 07:27 am:

Hmmm, the windshield looks to be 22, the hinge is sitting about the split.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 08:37 am:

Aren't windshields the same on mid '17 through '22 American cars? On Canadian cars, they went to slant windshields starting in '20 I think.

This weekend, I might try and gain access to a '20 or '21 Canadian Touring to study and photograph details. Is there anything particular some of you would like me to look for short of tearing someone else's car apart? Even lifting floorboards might be crossing the line, we'll see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux Margaret River West Oz on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 09:48 am:

What photo's are you looking for? Most T's in Australia are Canadian origin, albeit most were bodied here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Oldland - Perth W.Australia on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 03:02 am:

Good pickup on the "Made in Canada" plaque, thanks for that, as I was wondering where to put the one that I have onto my 1915 Canadian built Tourer

John Oldland
Perth Western Australia


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:04 am:

I'm glad that helped John. Every Canadian car I've seen from that vintage has that plaque in the same spot.

Another potential Canadian detail. The straps that prevent the door from opening too far. I usually see webbing material on the American cars while Canadian cars have vinyl as shown above. Is that the way they were made? Hard to say. Something more to think about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 11:53 pm:

Here's a picture I have showing new Canadian T's in storage in Vancouver. It's dated 1919. I can email a high res pic if anyone wants a better look.



In that mess that looks like plastic on the right there appears to be extra fenders and other sheet metal parts.
In 1919 Vancouver and British Columbia was still driving on the left side of the road. We didn't change until Feb 1 1922. Ford had supplied T's to us right hand drive for a while. It appears that had ended by 1919. I have never run across a rhd starter hogshead out here. I do have a steel one and a few aluminum ones. I wonder when ford stopped supplying RHD to us?
Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 11:59 pm:

Another Vancouver car. This time a 1913 RHD
Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 12:13 am:

1919 one man tops, is that another first for Canadian T's before USA ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 09:16 am:

Those are not 1919 cars, they are 1920 or 1921. You can tell by the one man tops with twin oval windows that are actually made of glass and the one piece front spring clamps.

On a side note, I did go to Toronto to see that car I mentioned but, there was nothing special to see or photograph. It was a clean and solid, '21Canadian Touring, wrong year triple window top, '24 trim below the rad, horn button moved to the dash. It had a Canadian engine number and a late '20 casting date yet no "Ford Made in Canada" markings on the block. It did have those markings on the head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 01:52 pm:

It is good to see all of you fellers posting on Canadian Cars.

To often we don't see enough responses to threads on these cars.

Thanks everyone, much appreciated.

John Page, Australia.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Findlay on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 11:34 pm:

This picture is a Canadian RHD only the pictured has been reversed. Probably a 13. Accessory electric lights


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins Winnipeg,Canada on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:41 am:

Here you go


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:51 am:

looks like that broken spoke has some sort of insert repair job!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Sunday, February 07, 2016 - 07:50 pm:

In the first post the side lights have a series of holes in the chimney this was done to the '15,'16s in to early 17s'. Canadi*n kerosene side lamps were made by CLASCO in Hamilton Ontario


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Thursday, February 11, 2016 - 09:11 am:

Hi Dave, some thing that not many people pick up is that most Canadian T's have "Walkerville" on the ID plate but there was a few brass models made in "Ford" (the city and not the plant) Ontario as my plate on the 1913 has that on it and was a non agent import by the attached dealer step plates.
The person stamping the plate even got one of the numbers back to front then restamped over it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jean Pierre on Thursday, December 08, 2016 - 08:58 am:

Canadian Model T One family ownership from new, looks quite original to me. I should be recommissioning this car soon, and would love to learn more about it, I am new to Model Ts...
Canadian Model T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Thursday, December 08, 2016 - 11:51 am:

My 1927 Canadian built Touring has all Robertson screws. The car says "Made in Canada" everywhere you would find "Made in USA" with ONE exception!

The hub caps still say "Made in USA". I understand there were a few "Made in Canada" hub caps manufactured in the 1920's but the previous owner's search, and mine have proved fruitless.

Three owners back the car resided on Vancouver Island in British Columbia where it received it's last major restoration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, December 08, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

Jean,

I see this is your first posting, so welcome to the forum!

It sounds like you will be working on the car for the family that originally purchased it. That is great. With the car in the same family since new, there is a good chance you will be able to obtain some history to help you determine more about the car. For example, do they have any stories or photos from back in the day?

One of the major things to determine is what would they like to do with the car? Was it restored a while back and they want to get it running again? From the appearance of the paint and top, I suspect they have been replaced within the last 30 years or so.

Unless it was parked because of some major mechanical issue, there is a good chance if it was running well when parked, and if it was parked in a dry garage etc. that it can be put back into running condition with just a little bit of work.

Recommend you find out what was previously restored and when. And how long has it been stored? When was it last driven etc.

For information on how to get it running after it has been in storage, please see Milt's excellent article, "Removing a Model T From Moth Balls" at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/8538.html -- scroll down to Tom Mullin’s posting the third posting from the top. That is probably more than you need to do – but includes a lot of good things to check.

Note there are some good on line resources for working on the Ts, See: http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html

Tony Cimorelli collected and scanned a lot of great material, it is located at: http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm (Thank you mark Strange for posting that link).

I would recommend you start a new thread about your clients car rather than continuing to post on this thread.

The Model T Ford Club International has just published a new Judging Guidelines Seventh Edition that specifically added items that they know about that are unique to the the Canadian cars. If the owners are interested in keep the car as original as possible, they may want to consider obtaining a copy of the book. I was going to post a link to where it can be ordered, but the MTFCI site is undergoing repairs but will in the future have their store up so you can order from there -- see: https://www.modelt.org/home.html If you want the information sooner -- ask here on the forum and one of us can look it up in the printed magazine for you.

Note from the photo you posted the car appears to be an early to mid-1926ish car. I'm basing that on the lack of a bar that the later 1926 and 1927 headlights had.

Again the history of the car will answer many questions. For example Ford of Canada shipped cars directly to British East Africa which later became Kenya. But they also shipped cars and parts to all other British Commonwealth countries with the exception of England and Ireland. So where was the car bought new?

One item that may help with that question is to look at the firewall on the engine side just below where the radiator rod attaches. Most 1926-27 Canadian cars and Australian cars have a letter and a number stamped there. See the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/196599.html?1299852394 for additional details and photos of where to look.

Note the engine number can also help date the car. Below is a listing of Canadian engine numbers (Thank you Steven Miller for providing those for us!):







Note in the USA Ford Motor Company started stamping the engine number on top of the frame rail (ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc25.htm ) that says:

DEC 12. 1925 Acc. 94. Walter Fishleigh files, Ford Archives
"Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park."

I do not know when Ford of Canada began doing that. I know many 1926-27 Canadian Ts have the engine number stamped on top of the frame rail.

Where on the frame rail? Please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/102644.html

There are lots of other items to mention -- such as safety see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/696360.html Recommend you review those and have the owner review them also. It is at that thread and at the posting "By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, November 26, 2016 - 09:20 pm:"

Good luck with the car. And please post additional photos and/or questions.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 12:14 am:

John Aldrich's post re hubcaps rang a bell with me. I agree that many of the hubcaps on our Canadian sourced cars do not have 'Made in Canada' stamped in them. Most just have the Ford script, plus a single letter stamped under the script. This letter changes, with no apparent rhyme or reason. This is for the wood wheel hubcaps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 08:05 pm:

Fellas, may I ask?
The Canadian RHD '18 shown at the top has the ribbed pedals. What's up with that? The ribbed pedals stayed longer on Canadian engines compared to '15 or '16 USA production?
I have a USA '19 engine (LHD) in my Crappy '24 roadster and the hogshead seems to be about correct judging by the transmission book but this one has the ribbed pedals.
So many details to remember. What am I missing? The pedals were changed or?
Note. It is a Minnesota locale engine. Has been for 50++ years. Central MN granary/shed until about '96 or so when it became mine.
Notions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 08:24 pm:

Duey,
Our Canadian T's stuck with the ribbed peddles until the 26/7 wide ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 09:15 pm:

Whoa. Thank you Frank! Whoa.
That's just cool. I like my odd ribbed pedals. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 09:45 pm:

Whoa Frank! In my experience, the Dalgety Fords of 1925 had smooth pedals. My 1925 Duncan and Fraser roadster also has smooth pedals, as does the restored one I used as a reference car in rebuilding mine.

I do not know if there was a link, but the same cars also had BE rims with fixed lugs, just as the US cars had had for years prior.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 11:06 pm:

Gents,
My Canadian built October '21 has ribbed pedals but my January '25 has smooth.
Oh...and there is no right or wrong when it comes to LHD & RHD cars and the side of the road they are driven on. Only right and correct.
Cheers,
Rob

(Message edited by rob patterson on December 09, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, December 09, 2016 - 11:38 pm:

Now I didn't say it was exclusive to our T,s as we know all sorts of mix's turn up on Canadian T's.
Just as an example, I've just done a rebuild on one that has a small brake drum with clutch lug shoes and also have wide drums with no lug shoes.
So it doesn't surprise me at all if a few 25's have the un-ribbed peddles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 12:09 am:

This has been discussed before and I hope I am not getting off topic, but here is some things that the improved cars have that make them clearly Canadian: horn button in the middle of the steering column, Robertson screws throughout, and two holes on either side of the split rim, in addition to Made In Canada stamp in various parts of the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 02:22 am:

Jim, another interesting difference, I have never seen a Canadian sourced car here with the fabricated steering wheel spider. They have always been forgings. I do have a fabricated one, on my US import Tudor.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 02:25 am:

Jim, another interesting difference, I have never seen a Canadian sourced car here with the fabricated steering wheel spider. They have always been forgings. I do have a fabricated one, on my US import Tudor.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 12:44 pm:

Allen:
What do you mean by fabricated? Mine was replaced at some point in time because it does not have Robertson screws on it. It is a 16 inch, not a 17 inch, which is also incorrect. At some point, I will replace it and put the proper Robertson screws in.

I guess that some of the earlier Canadian cars also had different license plate holders on the front.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

As in "an assembly" - riveted pieces together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 01:59 pm:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 03:18 am:

Here is link to an eBay link of a 1915 Canadian touring.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/182381204822?_trkparms=pageci:063a54c0-bf7a-11e6-8d6f-74db d1803021%7Cparentrq:ecf3c8011580a605b711d716ffe5fd5d%7Ciid:1&_mwBanner=1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russ Furstnow on Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 11:32 am:

If you are interested in learning the specifics of the Canadian Ford, check out the Seventh Edition of the MTFCI Judging Guidelines. The guidelines have a year by year guide describing the unique aspects of the Canadian Ford, many of which have been described in this post. These guidelines have been vetted by MTFCI Canadian members.

Many Canadian, Australian and New Zealand MTFCI members contributed to the Canadian supplement found in the guidelines. Thanks to all who helped.
Russ Furstnow, MTFCI Chief Judge


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