I'm thinking of open surgery on a 26 27 tank

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: I'm thinking of open surgery on a 26 27 tank
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 01:23 am:

I'm thinking of open surgery on a 26 27 tank as a last resort to cleaning the tank out properly my question is does anybody have any good pictures of the inside of these particular tanks? What I am wondering if I put pea gravel inside in order to clean the tank would the pea gravel get between the 2 baffles resulting in all three compartment getting cleaned?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Weeds on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 02:08 am:

I threaded a long chain (secured) in the top filler hole and after a heap of shaking it the other end actually came out the outlet hole.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 07:30 am:

My local radiator shop did what your photo shows, because gas was seeping through the inner tube and dripping out the overflow outlet.

He repaired the leak, blasted the internals, welded it back up, then lined it.

All this for $90.00. And guaranteed his work, too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:14 am:

Far better than pea gravel is drywall screws. They are sharp and do the best job of cleaning the inside of a tank. I have done 3 this way.

If you have the time to rig up some sort of device that will rotate the tank with a small electric motor (with the drywall screws inside), you can make the inside literally shine.I think someone posted a rig for this on the forum.

Also, search the forum for coatings to protect the inside after cleaning. I have always used a epoxy coating and never had another problem with the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg - Tarboro, NC on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:24 am:

This is what I use to turn tanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kyle Pierce CT on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:30 am:

I used a bunch of odd nuts I had laying around. Then I jacked my Ford NAA tractor up, strapped the tank to the wheel, put in gear, and walked away for awhile. I'm sure the neighbors enjoyed the racket!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:56 am:

that is a good use for a NAA! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Shawn Hayward on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 09:00 am:

I put them in a cement mixer ,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 10:55 am:

Dangerous getting a tank clean enough for welding/brazing whatever. You're basically dealing with an un-exploded bomb. I saw a motorcycle tank go off after repeated thorough home done "cleanings". Luckily no one was hurt but it was a real eye opener. Check around. Find out how much a good boil out will cost. It's worth every penny. I wouldn't try what you're proposing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 01:08 pm:

Thank you guys for all the answers and good advice however my question remains does anybody have any good pictures of the inside of these tanks ??? I want to know if I put drywall nails or pea gravel in the tank will it reach all three compartments????? what are the dimensions of the holes between the baffles????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 01:09 pm:

John Dolittle, I love those Indiana prices. The same process cost me around 275 Dollars. I asked them to seal the inside of the drain tube as added assurance that it won't ever leak but they forgot to do it. After calling it to their attention they just sluffed it off saying it isn't necessary.

Has anyone sealed the inside of the drain tube instead of trying to seal the outside surface which is inside the tank?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 01:14 pm:

Nicholas,
I guess I'm lazy, because my first thought at seeing your set-up was, "Gee, you could hook a BBQ rotisserie motor to that and let it run all day!"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 01:18 pm:

Norrie...my thought would be to continue on your first thought of "open heart surgery"...I can't honestly think anything rattling around in those compartments would get it 100% clean, and frankly if not fully clean then you're just open to more trouble down the road and all your efforts were for naught. Just my 2 cents, I know others would disagree and that's fine too. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 02:01 pm:

Charlie
I feel there are two options for doing "hot work" on a fuel tank.
1. Get rid of all the fuel. Tricky at best.
2. Get all the oxygen out of the tank. Not that tough to accomplish for me. I've now done it to 5 tanks and I haven't even singed my eyebrows


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 02:16 pm:

I was tought by my dad to wash the tank good with lots of water and dishwash detergent than stick the tank opening up to a running cars exaust pipe when the tank is hot and dry it should be safe to weld


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 02:19 pm:

Eric

Has anyone sealed the inside of the drain tube instead of trying to seal the outside surface which is inside the tank?

Yes. Did it to my '26-'27 tank that a radiator shop cleaned, and made a patch on a thin spot on the upper tank surface where the straps go across.

But testing, they found a 'weep' that let fuel drip from the overflow. It only was a problem if the tank was full, as a pin hole in the overflow tube allowed that.

So bought a small can of Bill Hirsch's gas tank sealer, the small version set sold for motorcycle tanks.

As the tank and overflow was cleaned, didn't use the Hirsch cleaner, only the sealer. Made cork or rubber stoppers for both ends of the overflow. Then poured in a good bit of the sealer.

Flipped the tank over, rocked it so the fluid ran up and down inside the overflow tube. Let it drain out and dry. Then repeated the step to have a second coat.

Still works after 12 years, no weeping will a full tank of fuel!



A peak into the drain hole above in the filler well and you may see the tiny divot of where a pin hole is. The sealer sealed that pin hole or maybe others that were there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 02:56 pm:

Tim Wrenn, I agree that it would be virtually impossible to clean all of the tank's inside surfaces without opening each of the sections created by the baffles. I had actually purchased a "do-it-yourself" sealer kit before deciding to have it professionally done after looking at the "cut away" picture at the top of this thread.

Dan, thanks very much for your comments. A small part of the sealant I bought is going to be used to seal the inside of the drain tube and bring me peace of mind. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 03:10 pm:

Eric- the first one I had lined was sent to Texas per recommendation on this forum. Cost was $250 pus shipping both ways. I got a good job, but no better than the $90 job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 03:17 pm:

Thanks John, that make me feel better about my "deal". :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 04:27 pm:

I tried to solder a gas tank with an aceteline torch. I washed it out with water and thought all the gas was out. Fortunately I lived but the tank jumped several inches. I have not used anything other than a very heavy soldering iron to fix one since that time.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

Norman
I've always just used a torch, but of course I follow my philosophy which is the opposite of what you tried


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 10:07 pm:

Does anybody have a 26/27 rusty petrol / gasoline tank that is no longer fit for use and never will be that they could cut open and take a few pictures of???

Here's a picture of a model A tank that someone has cut open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 09:31 am:

Seems to me my former school bus mechanic who was as about as good as they came, said to purge a fuel tank you hook it up to an exhaust pipe and run the engine for I can't remember how long. Hour or so? Anyway, he said he'd done it several times with no problems. Just sayin'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 10:51 am:

I know most of you guys are trying to answer Maver's question but suggesting he try to cut open and re-weld a fuel tank is just not safe. You simply don't know when you haven't done enough to clean it out or neutralize it. It's a bomb waiting for a mistake. I'll restate: either find something small enough to do the job of breaking the rust free (like the stuff suggested) or have it done professionally. Please don't try it yourself. That motorcycle tank I mentioned luckily flew 25 feet straight up. It literally disappeared when the torch was brought to it. There one second and gone the next. One of the guys shouted Look Out and we all ran in different directions as it flew up and landed in almost the exact same spot. Blown wide open like an open clam shell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 11:29 am:

Let's explain a little "science" behind what Tim posted
Your typical older engine exhaust comprises of;
1. Heat
2. Water (vapour which quickly starts to condense)
3. Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
4. And now more importantly CO (carbon monoxide). This is a powerful oxygen "scavenger". Anyone who has been exposed I trust realizes that CO scavenges oxygen from your blood stream.
Anyway the CO scavenges any free oxygen from inside the tank. To have combustion in a tank you need fuel and oxygen in a ratio somewhere between 10-1 to 14-1 air to fuel ratio. As has been pointed out; getting rid of ALL the fuel can be quite problematic in a tank. Getting rid of all (or at least the vast majority) of the oxygen is considerably easier and more
reliable.
The exhaust pipe trick works well although I would not use a diesel as it has no air throttling and I would prefer a carbureted engine and maybe pull on just a bit of choke to make sure you are generating CO. Added advantage is it preheats the tank to make welding/soldering easier. Also best to keep it connected and running while you are doing this job outside in fresh air!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 11:32 am:

If what I just posted goes over your head them please DON'T attempt to do this. This is only intended for those who understand the WHY it works and can make their own decisions as to when it is safe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

I had a gas tank welded once and was shown, with it full of water, that it did not leak at all.

It leaked real good after I bolted it back in the car and filled it with gasoline.

It seems the molecular structure of gas is much finer than that of water and provides another problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 01:36 pm:

If you are putting screws, nuts or bolts in your tank, I would count them first. Then make sure the same amount fall out. That way you will know if any had gotten wedged in between the baffles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 06:24 pm:

Does anybody have a 26/27 rusty petrol / gasoline tank that is no longer fit for use and never will be that they could cut open and take a few pictures of???


N


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 04:00 pm:

Les, everything you posted is very true, BUT, I wouldn't pull the choke to make it run a little faster. If it starts running too rich, it will defeat the purpose, don't ask how I learned about that! Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 04:26 pm:

Now I will describe my usual method of soldering on gas tanks;
1. I make sure there is gasoline in the tank. I prefer to work on tanks that are still being used as I know they will be full of gasoline vapour and virtually no chance of oxygen being in the tank.
2. If possible I put the tank in the hot sun and allow it to warm up. I now look to be sure there are vapours rising from the openings of the tank
3. I now solder the tank out in the warm sun

I'm not recommending this method for you, but it works for me!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 01:40 pm:

Somewhere i have a tank that's cut open, will get pictures next time i find it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frederick Fletcher on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 02:22 pm:

Not to sound like a know-it-all and realizing what follows is far off-topic, but the "science" of carbon monoxide (CO), mentioned above, is not accurate. CO is not an oxygen scavenger, nor does it react directly with oxygen under normal circumstances. It does bind to hemoglobin in blood much stronger than free oxygen and thus serves to displace oxygen delivery to tissues. That's what kills you if you breathe too much CO. In the gas tank example, exhaust "gas", which is relatively depleted of free oxygen, would seem to displace air in the tank, resulting in too little free oxygen to support explosive combustion if trace gas vapor remains.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 09:01 pm:

kep you are a true gentleman thank you very much I look forward to looking at the photographs.


M


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 01:05 pm:

?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 03:49 am:

Haven't had the opportunity to travel to the location of the tank yet. 24 hours from now i should have been able to though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:51 am:

Kep.

Thank you very much I look forward to looking at the photographs.


Norrie


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 03:40 am:



These did not come out very well but shows the partitions locations and if you look really carefully you can see the corners of the partitions are open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rose on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 05:30 am:

Les Schubert:

When a person gets carbon monoxide, CO, poisoning it is not that the CO grabs the oxygen but the CO binds with the Hemoglobin which prevents oxygen from binding with the hemoglobin, consequently oxygen can not be transported to the cells.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 08:35 pm:

Kep.

Thank you very much for the pictures it looks like there is space for drywall screws/p gravel to migrate between the three compartment I shall give it a try.

N


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