Pistons for Scat cranks

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Pistons for Scat cranks
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 03:09 pm:

Over the years there have been complaints about Egge pistons. Some like them and other don't. For those that didn't like using an Egge piston you will not have to worry any longer as they (Egge) will no longer provide our hobby with pistons that will work with Scat or Model A crankshafts for our T Models using a Model A type rod.

An option is to weld Model A rods (bottom) to Model T rods (tops) and use standard or pop up pistons furnished by our vendors. Not my first choice, but has been done many times over the years.

After speaking with Egge they confirmed for a number of reasons.

I bought the last of Egge pistons from two different vendors and another friend did the same from another.

Until someone steps up to the plate we now will need to have pistons made by companies like Ross which will add a few hundred bucks to the cost of a build because they will be custom.

Really the cost increase of custom pistons isn't that bad when you look at the overall cost of putting a Scat crank into a block. When you add the cost of the crank, main caps, longer main bolts, additional machining cost to the block saddles, a set of Model A rods, dimpling the pan, small amount of work on the horse shoes of the inspection cover, would be 10% to 15%.

I am not sure if other brands have an on the shelf piston that will work, so any comments would be welcome.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 03:44 pm:

you need to clarify that the SKAT crank is a stroked crank. The pistons you are referring to are for a stroked crank. I used a SKAT standard crank in my T and used the standard T rods and pistons. No problem.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 04:13 pm:

I seem to remember hearing when talking with Tom Lieb, that Scat planned to manufacture special rods to allow the use of the stroker Scat crank with standard model T pistons. No idea about the cost of these special rods. Anyone know anything??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 04:42 pm:

Norman thought I did "(Egge) will no longer provide our hobby with pistons that will work with Scat or Model A crankshafts for our T Models using a Model A type rod". And it is Scat not Skat. LOL

Tony, Tom did but the wrist pin needs to float requirng a button instered into the wrist pin. They also require some modifing to get to work out. I have install three sets of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 05:09 pm:

Disappointing about Egge. Are the specs readily available that one could provide Ross for making the custom ones? I guess it would mainly be pin size and location but I'm pretty ignorant about all they might need.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Sunday, January 17, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

Mike,
Egge at one time also offered pistons that would fit 28 chev. rods when installing a chev. crank in a T. For that project, I ended up using Egge pistons for using a Model A crankshaft and rods. I bushed the Egge pistons using shouldered bushing that I made out of 7075-T6 aluminum. Heated the pistons to 350 deg. F and soaked the bushing in dry ice before pressing them in. Pistons were then honed to fit the chev. wrist pin. It worked out great.
The down side was you still had to dimple the pan and do some of the same modifications that are required when installing a Model A crankshaft. The chev. crank has the same stroke as the T.
Just sharing my experience.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 12:17 am:

FWIIW Egge seems to be the Mac's of piston manufactures. To big to give a damn about the folks that buy from them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 11:58 am:

Things changed at Egge after the "Dad" passed away years ago.....that has happened with many business. It's sad but that's life today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 12:09 pm:

Les,

My understanding is that after "Dad passed away", all the patterns and castings for obscure cars were thrown away since they weren't where the maximum profit was. So, I guess pistons for a 1924 Elcar or 1906 Pungs-Finch will have to be sourced elsewhere.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:03 pm:

Scat now makes new rods for both the standard and stroker cranks. You can use standard pistons with both.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:45 pm:

Problem with the small wrist pins is you can't put much compression on top of them or you blow away the pin bore in the piston. For the average engine its not an issue just sayin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 11:08 pm:

Glen

Yes Scat makes the rods for their cranks,

If they haven't change the design in the last year the wrist pin is full floating and requires a button inserted in to the bore for the pin.

Not a problem but requires buying a set of buttons that don't fit and need to be turned down or make your own. If you're in the camp of not wanting to use the buttons, then you are going to have pistons custom made.

Their rods use with the Stroker crank will hit the exhaust lobes of a new cam shaft, maybe not on a regrind. Again not a problem to fix.

The reason for this post is to let forum members know that just buying Scat's rods will not work without additional work on their part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter McIntyre on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 06:19 am:

Gentlemen
when sourcing pistons for a 1909 EMF,I found J.P. Engineering in South Australia .They made pistons from the sample I sent and the price was$ 2500.00 cheaper then Egg.Would highly recommend


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:47 pm:

Arias Pistons are excellent quality. Their pistons are forged aluminum. Arias Industries are located in Gardena Calif. (313) 532-9737 www.ariaspistons.com
They will make specials including pistons for model T's. They made several sets of 4-3/4 bore pistons for 1 & 2 cylinder REO's. They are known for making performance pistons. Dave Parker in Arizona who has several high performance T racers uses Arias for special designed pistons in his overheads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine in Australia on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 02:15 pm:

As Peter said, you could try J.P. in Australia, see:

http://www.jp.com.au/JPPistons.html

The Aussie $ has crashed against the USD so prices are likely to be good for anyone in the USA.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 02:58 pm:

Arias Pistons is in the 310 area code.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 03:31 pm:

A bit of history. Egge no longer makes a piston that will allow use of Model A rods that will work in our T engine. This of course applies only to using a Scat stroker or a Model A crankshaft. Egge still manufactures a standard Model T piston.

I had spoke with Egge a few months back and they stated that sales of this product was very low and the molds were very old, beyond repair. The last batch they had over a 70% rejection rate and made a decision that the cost of new molds were not worth the return on investment. I under stand the decision.

Chaffins called me today. I knew they had been in contact with Egge working on a solution.

Chaffins have in stock a Model T type piston which uses snap rings in the bore of the wrist pin.

We now could use Scat rods on both Model A or Scat's stroker crankshaft, Egge's pistons and not have pistons custom made. It is a good option but would more than likely be a wash on overall cost.

So hats off to Chaffins for their effort and Egge as they both do give a “DAMN” about our hobby.


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