Pulling Small Timing Gear on Crankshaft

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Pulling Small Timing Gear on Crankshaft
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:36 pm:

New to this game, so need a little help before I start yanking on this thing. Upon disassembly, I of course assumed that the small gear is a normal press fit on the end of the crankshaft. But look at the photo.




Are my eyes deceiving me, or is the end of the crankshaft threaded into the bore of the gear? I want to say this is just corrosion that coincidentally looks like threads and I should just start pulling as per normal, but I thought I better ask first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

Pressed on and key.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:54 pm:

I do have to ask, why are you removing the gear? It looks pretty darn good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:57 pm:

Richard: You are more apt to catch a cold before you would have to putt the lower timing gear. As Frank said it is a press fi. Probably 20 to 30 ton of pulling of pushing power. That gear is the last gear that you would pull on a Model T in my opinion.

Oh welcome to the Club of Model'Ts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:58 pm:

s/b have to pullth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 08:59 pm:

pull the

Dam* computer


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 09:02 pm:

Hope you the best and excuse the mistakes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 09:11 pm:

I reckoned I needed to replace it because the timing gears are loud and I measured 0.015 - 0.020 backlash, and I always heard that if the backlash is far out, that you should replace both gears to ensure the best fit.

Also, I'm doing a complete engine rebuild, so (I thought) its not that big of a deal to change it out while the crank is on the bench (unless I can't get it off!! 20-30 tons is more than I can muster!!)

Thoughts?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

Heat from a oxy acetylene torch can help, especially as you are not planning to use the gear again. A good big gear puller I would expect to work


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

Hey Richard when I changed out my timing gear on my cam everyone recommended I go ahead and change the gear on the crank at the same time. You've already got the crank out, swap the gear for a fresh new one with a new cam gear. My gear came off with some whacks from a hammer and the new one went on the same way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 10:40 pm:

Press it off. It is probably well worn and it is the cheapest part you will buy in a total rebuild. Have your crankshaft grinder clean up the seal area on your crankshaft. The seal will last a lot longer if you do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 12:28 am:

OK, I have the courage to pull it off now. Thanks for the advice from all.

Jack, the photo may have been a little confusing. The portion of the shaft which is showing in the photo is the pulley side of the gear, not the journal side. But this brings up another question I had not thought about before. This portion of the shaft (on the pulley side of the timing gear) is encompassed by the cutouts in the engine pan and the timing cover, but its not a bearing surface. I cannot imagine that it seals very well and must be gushing oil during normal engine operation? Is this a problem, and if so, what is the remedy?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 04:06 am:

Richard, with the crankshaft out of the motor, I do not pull the gear off. It is far easier to press the crankshaft out of the gear, if you have a press. Simply put the crankshaft between the cross bars on the press, with the back of the gear between two plates, and gently push the crankshaft through the gear. Just be ready to catch the shaft when it gets free.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 08:04 am:

Allan, I see what you mean. That does sound better. I'm going to give that a try. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 09:14 am:

Richard, I just pressed the gear off my crank. Pretty easy job. I used my antique 28 ton manual press. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 09:59 am:

When the time comes for pressing the new one on, any advice on how to support the crank for the job? If I set it on the flange it seems I would bend the whole lot. If I support it under the first web it won't stand up straight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:19 am:

Heat the gear up some and it will slide right on with out pressing. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:26 am:

If you're replacing the crankshaft and camshaft gears you should also replace the generator gear at the same time. If it has one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:30 am:

Supporting the crank by the first web in a large vice worked for me - the piece of pipe I used for pushing the gear on straightened everything up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:47 am:

The last one I did, heated in a pot of oil to about 300-350 and it dropped right on. I may have used a piece of pipe that just fit over the end of the crank to tap on last little bit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, January 19, 2016 - 10:47 am:

I was reading this post with interest and got to thinking about if anyone has removed the crankshaft gear while the engine was still in the car.
These days most if not all of us do this when doing a rebuild.
For those that would want to do it the Ford service manual shows how to do it on page 118 starting at paragraph 458.
Interesting enough Ford called it the 'small time gear'. And when removing it a puller was used with a large crescent wrench and a new one was 'driven' on with a driver.

I don't recall any post on the forum from someone doing it the Ford service manual way. But undoubtably farm boys and shade tree mechanics did it this way back when.
Interesting!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 11:02 am:

I did one "in car" a few years ago, I heated the new gear on a 100 watt light bulb for an hour or so and it slipped right on w/only light tapping w/a small hammer and a piece of pipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:06 pm:

Ken, did you use the light bulb to heat up the old gear to remove it 'in car'?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 10:18 am:

No heat, just a gear puller.


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