Top Boot and straps

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Top Boot and straps
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 10:08 am:

I just got my top boot from Classtique and man, does it look great! As you can see, Mike made my boot to my request - with the flap on the side at the top, just like Henry did! He also made my tie down straps out of cotton webbing without any hardware. This is because my 1914 came with one original tie-down strap still attached with a nail through the wooden seat frame. Although all the top boot manufacturers make the straps with those metal posts that have to screw into the wood, I wanted mine to replicate the original so I told Mike to leave the three straps plain. I then made three matching tie-down straps as close to the original as possible, using stuff I found around the house. I figure instead of just pounding a nail through the webbing straight into the wooden frame, I gave it a little more support by using the snap posts - I'll simply put a nail through the hole in the post! Too cold to do anything today, but the next sunny day I'm on it! BTW, Classtique is top notch and the customer service is outstanding! Thanks again, Mike!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 10:25 am:

Bill, you done good. Mike is a good person, and a pleasure to deal with. Your boot is the same as Ford made them, but I'm surprised he didn't use the Turf grain that he uses for the tops. I suppose you specified Colonial grain? I've made several of these boots myself, because no one seems to know how to do it! If you use ring shank nails, they won't pull out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 10:53 am:

Thanks, Larry! I don't think I requested any type of grain so I suppose Mike used what was available. Too bad I didn't do more research on grains. And thanks for the tip on ring shank nails!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 10:56 am:

By the way, if anyone is interested in making those webbed tie-downs, I can give them the phone number of the place where I bought the sliding cinch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 11:13 am:

Is the middle strap attached to the bottom of the top boot so it passes through an eyelet on the top of the boot? This pulls the bottom of the boot up, eliminating sag.

See below - this is the original top boot from my dad's 1917 touring. (He also has the original cotton straps with buckles attached in the seat back.) They eliminated the side snaps by then.

On the 1917, the middle strap goes through a corresponding eyelet in the rear curtain as well as the top boot itself. For 1914, I would think it passes between the body and the roll up curtain so an eyelet is not needed on the curtain.

1917 boot detail
1

1917 boot
2

1914 Ford with top boot - note that appears that the middle strap passes through an eyelet
3

Reproduction 1917 boot made by my talented father using original as pattern. Note how middle strap passes through eyelet. He made the straps out of leatherette because he could not locate cotton webbing straps.
4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:46 pm:

Erik, my top does not have a hole in the top center and the strap is attached to the top part like the other two. I guess I didn't know about that center hole! However, I'm still not clear how the center strap works; I see that it's attached at the bottom and runs up the seat and passes through the eyelet - but where and what does it attach to after it goes through the eyelet? Surely not a tie down similar to what's on the seat bottom?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 12:49 pm:

By the way, the bottom center of my boot has a split in it with eyelets on either side and a drawstring to pull it tight - kind of like a shoe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 01:26 pm:

The middle strap is attached to the bottom of the top boot as shown above.

I passes through a corresponding eyelet in the rear curtain of the top and then through the eyelet of the top boot and continues over the seat as shown above. It then goes through a buckle on the short strap that is fastened to the base of the seat.

When you tighten (pull up) the middle strap, it pulls the bottom of the top boot up and eliminates sagging.

It's not complicated.

Unfortunately, the top boots sold by the vendors, including Classtique, are absolutely incorrect. For example, there should be no shoe lacing on the bottom of your top boot.

Correct top boots would be very easy to reproduce and fit correctly on the car. Why they are not doing it is beyond me. The thinking was already done for us 100 years ago. No reason to have a Rube Goldberg.

I have circle the eyelet in back curtain of the 1917 Rip Van Winkle touring below:

1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 01:30 pm:

OHHHHHH, I see now! Thanks for the info; again, I wish I had done more research prior to ordering my boot, but unless someone is putting out tops with eyelets on the back panel it wouldn't have done me much good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 02:30 pm:

Slightly off-topic, but if the eyelet were to come pre-installed on a top kit, then one would fasten the back panel to the body first, before fastening it to the back bow? Yes, I've not put a top on any of my model T's so far, so maybe my question is answered in the install instructions? Also, thinking about it a bit more, that would be one way to insure the back panel is square with the body.
Also noticing how nice the paint looks on the back window "frames" Were glass windows standard that year, or are these an accessory installed (by the dealer) when the car was new?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, January 20, 2016 - 02:32 pm:

Larry Smith is probably the best source of information.

I don't think the eyelet was used with a roll up curtain as the strap can pass between the seat and the curtain instead of through the curtain. However, I have not studied it so that is just my opinion - not fact.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 12:24 am:

I don't know if the center strap eyelets are still being made, but a regular one will work until you find one! I made a boot for my '25, and I just couldn't add that center eyelet! It just wouldn't look right. BTW, Ford didn't supply boots from 22-25, on the slant windshield models. I have a couple of NOS roadster boots, and the one pictured above is the same. What we need now is a source on the caps for the ends of the straps. Mark Cameron used to know where to get them, but I guess he forgot. We need the 5/8 size. Nancy Curtin has the 1/2" ones, but they are too small.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 01:52 am:

Those frames are aftermarket. In the history of that car, they are a recent addition. They were not on the car when Oscar Peterson (the original owner) or Eugene Princeton (second owner) owned it.

Larry - in corset making the metal caps are call "boning tips."

Quarter inch and half inch metal caps are readily available - for example. Not sure about 5/8" caps.

1/4" tips
http://corsetmaking.com/boning-tips/CMS-SSB-BT4DZ.html

1/4" tips
http://www.voguefabricsstore.com/Spiral-Bone-Tips-1-4-6mm-priced-per-gross.html

1/2" tips
http://corsetmaking.com/boning-tips/CMS-SSB-BT2DZ.html

Google shopping boning tips

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22boning+tips%22&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1240& bih=686&tbm=shop&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiehKmGp7rKAhWBrYMKHfJDA74Q_AUIBigB& dpr=1#tbm=shop&q=boning+tips

Google images boning tips

https://www.google.com/search?q=boning+tips&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1240&bih=68 6&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj35--Yp7rKAhWlrYMKHSuYCMAQ_AUIlwEoAQ


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 12:25 pm:

Erik,
Thanks; perhaps the original isinglass yellowed and cracked so this was thought to be the easiest and least obtrusive way to "fix" them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 03:43 pm:

This has been very educational topic for me I had no idea how the top boot works. Our 16 has the ovel eyelet in the top and a piece of the center strap that looks like leather with 2 nails I can't find any trace of the 2 other straps does anyone have a picture where they would go? Would 16 have leather straps and 1 piece window?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, January 21, 2016 - 11:40 pm:

Paul: You need to check more carefully. They should be right at the edge of the seat platform.
There will probably be a couple of nail holes. Vacuum all that crap out of there, and maybe you will see them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 12:07 am:

Some trivia for Larry and others who may be interested.

My dad purchased his 1917 touring in 1949 from the original family.

The car was in original, unrestored condition, comparable to the Rip Van Winkle touring.

My dad said the three short straps with buckles were sitting in the rear seat pan with the top boot - they had never been installed, i.e., never nailed to the bottom of the back rest.

My unrestored '17 roadster has the three short straps installed.

All three of the above are Minnesota cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 05:51 am:

Could be the top boot was purchased as a complete kit from a dealership after the car was purchased and the owner was required to install the short straps?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:14 am:

I could be wrong, but all T's had boots from the factory through the end of 1922.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:19 am:

I could be wrong, but all T's had boots from the factory through the end of 1922.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Coco - Winchester Va. on Thursday, February 18, 2016 - 01:35 pm:

What are inside dimensions of the eyelet? Does anyone have one for sale, or know a source for one? Thanks David Coco Winchester Va


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration