Engine number and YOM question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engine number and YOM question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 08:40 pm:

I cannot find clear information about this anywhere so I'll ask here. Would an engine number of 10822346 be considered a 1924 model (it seems to be a November build month) or a 1925? Was it possible to be titled as a 1924 but have 1925 features based on what time of year it was produced?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

Justin-
A car made in November 1924 is a 1925 car. It could have been titled as a 1924, because the actual date of production is 1924. Often people who do licensing don't know or don't care. They just go by the date of production.
-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 08:53 pm:

http://www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG90.html

My 1924 cut-off touring (now a pickup) was assembled in January 1924. Even so, when I bought the car from the previous owner, it came with a clear Illinois title that said the car was a 1923.

Rather than risk causing confusion and delay with the Missouri DMV, I elected to leave the year as 1923 when I applied for the new title.

Others may have different approaches or recommendations. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 08:54 pm:

From MTFCA Encyclopedia

ENGINE SERIAL NUMBERS: 9,008,372 to 10,994,033 calendar year. 8,122,675 to 10,266,471 fiscal year (August 1, 1923 to July 31, 1924).

MODEL YEAR DATES: August 1923 to August 1924.


Just like today, cars made in the late fall of any year are 'next' year's models.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:28 pm:

(I type too slow...)

Justin,

Engine serial number 10,821,365 to 10,823,902 were entered in the Ford Engine Log book on Nov 19, 1924 as being produced at the River Rouge engine shop.

Bruce McCalley on page 309 of his book “Model T Ford” as well as at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1924.htm has the model year listed as Jul 1923 to Aug 1924 for the 1924 models. And on page 311 and he has the 1925 model year listed as Aug 1924 to Aug 1925.

In the MTFCI Judging Guidelines they list the model year as Jul to Jul for 1924 to 1927 (with 1927 ending early).

So based on that the car or truck that the engine was placed in some time after Nov 19, 1924 was clearly in the 1925 model year. But Ford did running changes and the difference between a Jun 1924 and an Aug 1924 T is usually the serial number. When the vehicle was sold new depending on the state and when it was registered, it may have been titled as a 1924 or a 1925 or not titled at all. Some states didn’t title vehicles. As long as the title you have for the vehicle has the same serial number as the engine I would not be concerned if it said 1924 or 1925.

PS:

Are you talking about a Model T car or the Factory C-Cab Ton Truck on your profile page?

By the way the same day your engine was assembled Nov 19, 1924 at the River Rouge, not very far away, engine serial numbers 10,840,155 to 10,844,816 were listed as being assembled at the Highland Park engine shop. Note the gap in the serial numbers. From Sep 29, 1924 to Feb 13, 1925 Ford produced engines assemblies at both locations (as well as some other locations). With the engine production shifting more and more towards the River Rouge Plant over time. The River Rouge did NOT assemble Model T Fords, but did cast engine blocks, assemble engines etc.

So in the case of your engine that was assembled at the River Rouge on Nov 19, 1924 it would have been transported to the Highland Park plant for assembly or shipped to one of the many different branch assembly plants. If it was one of the small percentage that went into a car at the Highland Park plant, we have two recorded cases documenting how long that took. One of them took about a week from engine assembly to installation ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc25.htm
DEC 12, 1925 Acc. 94. Walter Fishleigh files, Ford Archives
"Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park."

From page 533 of Bruce's book we see serial number 12,861,044 is listed on the Dec 5, 1925 of the engine log. So it took approximately 7 days (8 if you count the first day) from assembled as an engine to assembled in a chassis.

The second documented case took about a day – but it was a special case. The engine was assembled on May 25, 1927 and the engine log states “held out for the next day.” On May 26, 1927 (I have seen other dates but hat is often used) it was placed into the 15,000,000 Ford.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l915 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:14 pm:

A bit of thread drift, but I sometimes wonder, is there any reason (beyond being anal about it) that we should care whether our car is titled under its model year or year of manufacture (for the 2-3 months a year they're different)? Could it cause trouble somewhere down the road or would it be the kind of thing where we'd have to be causing WAY more trouble ourselves to cause someone to do a ton of research to come up with a reason to take our old car away?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 08:31 am:

The way things are now, I don't think changing the title year is worth the trouble. It's just a formality. Unless you get pulled over or sell the car, that title stays in your wallet never to be seen again. Just forget about it and tell everyone else the real model year instead.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 09:29 am:

Thanks for the information. My TT more correct for a 1925 so the late build date works out well for that. It was titled as a 1924 very early on. I have the original title which is one of the first issued in PA.


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