Engine wont turn with crank... help

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engine wont turn with crank... help
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth williams on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 05:42 pm:

I have a 1919 center door sedan that has been passed down through the family. My Uncle just gave it to me and it needed some work. I just replaced the bands and in the process I dropped a washer down into the transmission.I used an camera scope to look around in the transmission for the washer. I also removed the starter and looked through the opening while turning the engine slowly with the crank to see if I could find the washer stuck to one of the magnets on the magneto. After a few rotations the crank stopped like the engine was locked up. I did not push hard because I thought the washer may have gotten stuck between gears or something. I finally found the washer, with the scope, laying in the bottom of the pan. I removed it and put everything back together. Problem is the engine still is locked and wont turn over. I have tried putting the car in high gear and rocking it back and forth with the spark plugs out to no avail. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on what to do?

Thanks
Ken Williams
1919 Model T C D Sedan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 05:50 pm:

Ken,

How familiar are you with Model T's? I don't really know where to start the diagnosis whiteout an idea of your familiarity and what you may have already tried.

The first thing that comes to my mind is what's the position of the emergency brake lever? The second thing would be how tight did you make the bands?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 06:22 pm:

May be a stuck valve if it has been sitting up for a few years. Pull the plugs and tho it is hard to do you can try turning the engine backward and see if that frees it up, if so probably a valve. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth williams on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 06:27 pm:

I am very experienced with working on cars. The T is new to me but it is not complicated at all. The parking brake lever was all the way forward for high gear. I am not sure if i may have broken something loose and jammed the flywheel with something while using the scope or if it is crankshaft or piston related. I just can't figure out if it engine or transmission related.

When brake lever is in neutral and i spin the back wheel i can see the drums spinning freely. when i put the brake lever all the way forward the wheel will only travel about an 1/8 of a turn in either direction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph A. Stearns on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 06:45 pm:

Sometimes simple things are overlooked-- ask my wife if I fit that mold and first thing I want to do is completely dismantle the entire engine or whatever.

You say a washer was dropped in the transmission but you found it and got it out--That's Good you were lucky. But did you count all the parts to make sure all washers or nuts are accounted for?

Good luck, joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 07:23 pm:

Jack up a rear wheel and see if you can turn the engine. Im in Melbourne Florida, How close are you to me, Maybe I can help you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 08:02 pm:

The hand brake should be "All the way back", not forward. This applies the parking brake and puts the transmission in neutral.

Check the petals. There should be play before the petals engage. In other words, if the bands are too tight you will not be able to turn the engine over. Pull the hogs head and adjust the bands loose to start.

Next, pull the spark plugs and put a little oil down each hole and let is sit for a while.

If you still can't turn it over by hand, remove the head and inspect the cylinders and valve.

I hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth williams on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 08:09 pm:

what is the easiest way to turn the engine backwards?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

Ken, pull the plugs, jack up a rear wheel, press on the fan belt with one hand to take the slack up completely and with the other hand grab the fan blade and turn it counter clockwise. That should do it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 09:10 pm:

Just turn one of the back wheels backwards with the other wheel on the ground and the transmission in high.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Manlove on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 09:17 pm:

Read his post carefully. The brake lever is all the way forward putting the car in high gear. Pull the brake all the way back to put car in neutral then try to crank engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 12:42 am:

You can disregard the suggestion to remove the hogshead to adjust the bands. You only need to remove the inspection cover to do that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Martin Vowell, Sylmar, CA on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 05:41 am:

Yes, Donald is right, you've got the car in gear...that's why you cant crank it with the crank, which is lucky for you, otherwise you'd look like one of the Harold Lloyd movies as the car ran over top of you. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:19 am:

Good catch Steve. I don't know what I was thinking. Yes, only remove the inspection cover to readjust the bands. It is better to have the bands too loose than too tight. You want them just tight enough to work without the pedal reaching it's limit.

Let us know what you find.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert G. Hester Jr., Riverview, FL on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 08:39 am:

Kenneth, I'm only a few miles away in Riverview. If you like I will come to your place and try to help figure it out. Sending a private message. Bob Hester


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 11:01 am:

Before you remove anything, one of your posts gave me a clue as to what might be wrong. Try putting the rear wheels on stands so that they are free to turn. Then put the parking brake lever all the way forward into the high gear position. Try turning the crank. It should turn the engine and the rear wheels should turn. At least one rear wheel should turn. If the rear wheels turn when you turn the crank, pull the parking brake lever all the way back. You should be able to crank the engine but the rear wheels should not turn.

When you adjust the bands all three should have free play and with the inspection cover off the transmission, you should see the bands tighten up as you push down on the pedals. The bands should be tight and the pedal stop moving approximately 1 1/2 inch above the floorboard. If it is more than 1 1/2 inch you should loosen the band.

I could give you more information but to avoid confusion, try these things and let us know the result.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth williams on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 10:01 pm:

After taking out the spark plugs I noticed that inside cylinder 2 it looked pretty ugly with some rusty gunk. I took off the head and was disgusted with what I saw. Cylinder 2 ( 2nd from the front) was a bunch of rust from coolant that had leaked into it. I cleaned out as much as possible and filled it with marvelous mystery oil and sprayed the valves and other parts with penetrant. I am going to let it soak overnight and see what happens tomorrow.

thanks for all your suggestions. Bob I sent you a message with my phone number. Give me a call so we can get together and hopefully get this thing running again soon.

Thanks again all
Kenny Williams
1919 T C/D Sedan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James M. Riedy, Sandusky, Ohio on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 11:33 pm:

Ken, Might I suggest that when working with the trans cover off that you remove the key from the ignition switch. They can and will drop into the trans if not careful. Jim


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